Secular Artists

[bek]

So do you guys concern yourself much with the music you listen to, so long as it's not some obviously horrid thing, or has lyrics glorifying bad stuff like drugs or violence? I ask because someone has told me I should no listen to Robert Johnson (and many others) because their work either, 1 --does not acknowledge or glorify God and/or, 2 -- their stuff is anti-Godly standards, or 3 -- is performed by someone whose life is built around an anti-God or similar persona (The Rolling Stones, for instance). I mean, should you toss your Robert Johnson collection, or your SRV or EC stuff, or the Jonny Lang stuff before the Turn Around album? To me, it's sort of like not appreciating a musician because he's a moody jerk or something, but of course there's a line to be found there. I mean, I'm no baby Christian, and rarely listen to anything "bad," but I find most "Christian" music more commercial or pitiful than heartfelt and real. So I listen to NeedToBreathe and others, and throw in some Beatles or Cream or Van Morrison or Tommy Castro now and then. I'm not sure what to think about this, and I don't think it's a "one answer fits all" kind of situation, although it's being presented to me that way. I covet your viewpoints.

[Kitty]

I ask because someone has told me... ... I covet your viewpoints.
My viewpoint is that this "someone" in your life is under the misguided impression that they have to do the Holy Spirit's work in your heart.

Believe me, if the Holy Spirit decides it's time for you to change your album collection, he will wrestle with you lovingly, but persistently, in your heart ... until you stop arguing with him and just do it. :)

This other person seems to think YOU have to have THEIR convictions in order to be a "good" Christian.

[scooteraz]

+1 on what Kitty said.

You pray, and delete from your collection what the Spirit tells you to.

[Crunchyriff]

AMEN, Kitty!!!!!!!!!!!

[LesStrat]

Once again, Kitty has effectively terminated a discussion.













...by providing precisely the correct, concise response.

[bek]

My viewpoint is that this "someone" in your life is under the misguided impression that they have to do the Holy Spirit's work in your heart.

Believe me, if the Holy Spirit decides it's time for you to change your album collection, he will wrestle with you lovingly, but persistently, in your heart ... until you stop arguing with him and just do it. :)

This other person seems to think YOU have to have THEIR convictions in order to be a "good" Christian.


This was my own initial thinking, but I know the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked (my own included), and I thought to check with others.

[bek]

This other person seems to think YOU have to have THEIR convictions in order to be a "good" Christian.


Actually, this person is under the impression it's more in the way of "right" and "wrong." Something more like, "Do you want to take a chance?" It feels too works-oriented to me, but then, Christianity is serious about living properly. There are standards for good conduct, and I agree with them in general; do right, out of gratitude.

[stephen]

First, Kitty nailed it from that perspective. I could not add anything more of any value.

Now as to your concerns about "our heart being deceitful":

Yes, we will try to justify our lusts, desires, and rebellion. No doubt about it.

But, when we answer God's call on our lives, accept Him into our heart, our heart begins to take on the rhythm and beating of His.

"He will give us the desires of our heart"

Many "name it, and claim it" churches and there interesting twist on doctrine, have contorted this verse, to where Jesus has become a lucky talisman, or a get rich quick scheme. But in the process, they've totally missed it. A better interpretation would be, He will put His desire in our heart. Oh, our flesh may fight it, but ultimately, its a losing battle.

Now to go a bit farther, yes, there are some songs, and groups I dont listen too, because that is what God has lead me to do. But not because I wonder:

"Gee, should I be concerned about this?

Is there evil in this I am not seeing?

Well, maybe it would be better to play it safe, than be sorry?

Too me, I think I would be operating under fear:
2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

I do not have to disengage my understanding, as long as I satay under the Power (Authority), of the One who owns my heart, and I operate in His Love.

[stephen]

Now, I forgot to add, we do need to look at ourselves continually, and make sure we are staying in His Mercy and Grace, and that we are not (as the name-it and claim-it crowd), create our own doctrine or dogma, to justify our fleshly desires.

[bek]

I appreciate everyone's input. Separate but equal question: I have a few pretty-good-quality photos of a few classic bands (Cream, Jimi) and this same person raises the ethical question whether I should attempt to profit from the sale of these photos or the rights to reproduce them (like for a t-shirt), since it could be considered glorifying these un-Godly people. Interesting point.

[Micter]

I have a slightly different take on the situation. Big surprise huh? I would have no second thoughts about explaining to someone that the music you listen to does have an affect on you spiritually. Now I am not so legalistic to say that no secular music is good but I would challenge you to stop listening to secular music for a period of time and see what you think in a couple weeks or so. Let me qualify why I feel this way. If you are at all questioning if God is dealing with you to give up the music you need to find out for sure for yourself. Asking people that listen to secular music for advice on the matter will only give you one side of the coin, so to speak. Seek God in the matter and obey his voice.

As for me, God dealt with me about the music I was listening to. Not only secular but so called Christian music as well. I have not listened to music outside of Church (for the most part) for 2 years. I am closer to God now because of it. My mind is clearer and I am way more focused on the Kingdom of God. I know this isn't popular amongst Christians but I want God more than entertainment. Some people need to get rid of distractions to achieve their Kingdom assignment.

[LesStrat]

Agreed. The key being, "some people". This is what Kitty meant.

Pursue holiness as God leads you.

[bek]

My inclination is to become more and more detached all the time from temporal things, in general. This includes many aspects of the mainstream church. I think there is some real weakness in the big, visible, American evangelical church. I watch almost no commercial television, I listen to almost no music, even while driving to work. For several months now, I have listened almost exclusively to either an old Andre Crouch recording, an album by the cowboy group Riders in the Sky, and a tape of a couple Beatles albums. I have a large collection of CDs of blues and such, including a bunch of gospel stuff. One of my favorite albums is one of Mississippi Fred McDowell's, with raw, stunning renditions of Amazing Grace and Jesus is on the Mainline, as well as others. I almost never take the time to make up a CD with my favorite stuff on it, partly because my car CD player dumped and I haven't prioritized its replacement. My point is mostly that I consider myself pretty disaffected by the world and its "glories." By the same token, I don't know quite how to answer the person's questions. I don't see a danger -- for me -- in keeping albums to which I rarely listen, and I must say I find tempting the notion of selling a couple outstanding old photos for what might be a nice chunk of change, BUT perhaps it would be a compromise of standards. Thoughts?

[LesStrat]

Are you selling something that would cause a person to sin?

If not, sell it. Tithe on the increase.

[bek]

Are you selling something that would cause a person to sin?

If not, sell it. Tithe on the increase.

That's the interesting question. People are different. I can't picture a grounded Christian being stumbled by a t-shirt with Eric Clapton and Ginger Baker on it, or of Jimi. Simple live pix, mind you, no weird stuff. BUT the point is made to me that it could be considered glorifying those people, and (in the viewpoint of this person who is trying to persuade me) therefore might well be a problem to a weaker person. My initial reaction is that no one can control and make perfect everyone's reaction. We can't make it so that no one is ever harmed by anything, but of course we must try to behave. I wouldn't think twice about it, normally. But should I?

[Micter]

There are times that God will ask us to rid ourselves of things to show our commitment to him. Things can be a distraction or put in a place of too high a priority. God will deal with us to get rid of them to draw us closer to him. .

[stephen]

Photos can be an art form. Photos can be enjoyed. Photos can elevate, or denigrate.

A statue can be an art form. A statue can be enjoyed. A statue can elevate, or denigrate.

A song can be an art form. A song can be enjoyed. A song can elevate, or denigrate.

There are so many things we can interchange here, but what it all comes down to is what is the motivation, or the spirit behind it.

I do not think that most sincere Christians, when they raise these concerns we are talking about here, are attempting to be legalistic (that too me, seems to be the thrust of the conversation were having), but to strive to get closer to God.

But when one brother or sisters striving to get closer to God, begins to evolve into a mandate to change everyone to their perspective, it encroaches into legalism.

I do wear Christian themed shirts. I am not opposed too it. Matter of fact, some of them are amongst my favorite shirts to wear. But one time while at a local restaurant waiting to get seated, I'm wearing "the Lords Gym" t-shirt. A little toddler is scooting around being a cute little toddler. She comes up to me all smiley faced, and saying, "Hi!". I respond, and momma quickly snatches her up, and says, "Leave that man alone.", but she permits her to go do this with other men and women also waiting.

Hmmmmm?

Then I hear some of the "whispers": yeah, he's one of those Jesus freaks. I dont need that around my kids, yada-yada-yada......

Another one of my favorite shirts, was a Led Zepplin t-shirt. It just had the band standing in front of their tour plane. Nothing fancy, but it said, "Led Zepplin" over the photo. I had several "brothers" tell me I was worshiping another god when I wore that shirt, or I am making other brothers stumble because of the shirt.

Hmmmmm?

Now its interesting, I have had more opportunities to talk to non-believers about the Lord because of my Led Zepplin shirt, and hardly any to no opportunities to talk to non-believers while wearing the Lords gym shirt.

Why is that?

Non-believer sees the Lords Gym shirt, and goes, "There's a person to avoid".

Non-believer see's a Led Zepplin shirt, likes Led Zepplin, starts talking about Led Zepplin, and I turn the conversation towards Jesus.

Now I'm not saying, ban all Christian shirts, and I'm not saying, Christians need to wear AC/DC shirts, no. I'm just saying, those blanket summations that say, "we as Christians need to wear this and not wear that, and listen to this, and not listen to that, and go around and tell other Christians, "This is how thou shalt dress, act, and enjoy, because.....", is getting into some dangerous ground.

But Micter deciding, I feel impressed to only listen to Christian music, and forsake secular, and that improves his walk with Christ, AWESOME! But he applies it too himself, and he does not preach it as doctrine that we all should follow. He fellowshipped with God, and he and God decided that this is what he needs to do in his life. HIS LIFE, not other believers lives. Now a question was asked, and he stated what he is doing in his life, but he did not tell anyone, "THIS IS WHAT THOU SHALT DO, SO SAYETH THE MICTER, HOLY ONE OF GOD!" Unfortunately, we do have brothers and sisters around, that are doing this very thing.

My advice, ask questions of other believers as you did here, but follow the Lords leadings........

[Micter]

Photos can be an art form. Photos can be enjoyed. Photos can elevate, or denigrate.

A statue can be an art form. A statue can be enjoyed. A statue can elevate, or denigrate.

A song can be an art form. A song can be enjoyed. A song can elevate, or denigrate.

There are so many things we can interchange here, but what it all comes down to is what is the motivation, or the spirit behind it.

I do not think that most sincere Christians, when they raise these concerns we are talking about here, are attempting to be legalistic (that too me, seems to be the thrust of the conversation were having), but to strive to get closer to God.

But when one brother or sisters striving to get closer to God, begins to evolve into a mandate to change everyone to their perspective, it encroaches into legalism.

I do wear Christian themed shirts. I am not opposed too it. Matter of fact, some of them are amongst my favorite shirts to wear. But one time while at a local restaurant waiting to get seated, I'm wearing "the Lords Gym" t-shirt. A little toddler is scooting around being a cute little toddler. She comes up to me all smiley faced, and saying, "Hi!". I respond, and momma quickly snatches her up, and says, "Leave that man alone.", but she permits her to go do this with other men and women also waiting.

Hmmmmm?

Then I hear some of the "whispers": yeah, he's one of those Jesus freaks. I dont need that around my kids, yada-yada-yada......

Another one of my favorite shirts, was a Led Zepplin t-shirt. It just had the band standing in front of their tour plane. Nothing fancy, but it said, "Led Zepplin" over the photo. I had several "brothers" tell me I was worshiping another god when I wore that shirt, or I am making other brothers stumble because of the shirt.

Hmmmmm?

Now its interesting, I have had more opportunities to talk to non-believers about the Lord because of my Led Zepplin shirt, and hardly any to no opportunities to talk to non-believers while wearing the Lords gym shirt.

Why is that?

Non-believer sees the Lords Gym shirt, and goes, "There's a person to avoid".

Non-believer see's a Led Zepplin shirt, likes Led Zepplin, starts talking about Led Zepplin, and I turn the conversation towards Jesus.

Now I'm not saying, ban all Christian shirts, and I'm not saying, Christians need to wear AC/DC shirts, no. I'm just saying, those blanket summations that say, "we as Christians need to wear this and not wear that, and listen to this, and not listen to that, and go around and tell other Christians, "This is how thou shalt dress, act, and enjoy, because.....", is getting into some dangerous ground.

But Micter deciding, I feel impressed to only listen to Christian music, and forsake secular, and that improves his walk with Christ, AWESOME! But he applies it too himself, and he does not preach it as doctrine that we all should follow. He fellowshipped with God, and he and God decided that this is what he needs to do in his life. HIS LIFE, not other believers lives. Now a question was asked, and he stated what he is doing in his life, but he did not tell anyone, "THIS IS WHAT THOU SHALT DO, SO SAYETH THE MICTER, HOLY ONE OF GOD!" Unfortunately, we do have brothers and sisters around, that are doing this very thing.

My advice, ask questions of other believers as you did here, but follow the Lords leadings........

It really started as only listening to Christian music and evolved to NO MUSIC! :)

The bottom line is this. All things are permissible but not all things are beneficial. If our actions cause someone else to stumble then we should consider changing. I know there are people that just seem to thrive on their legalism. Sometimes these folks go way beyond solid doctrine. BUT the bible does teach that if any man loves the world the love of the Father is not in him. If the love of music is at a high place in your life then you might have an issue with God. MIGHT! Sometime we hold on to stuff that God is trying to get out of us so he can replace it with something else. Our stubbornness can get in the way of our walk with God. Dumb sheep that we are! rofl

[stephen]

It really started as only listening to Christian music and evolved to NO MUSIC! :)

The bottom line is this. All things are permissible but not all things are beneficial. If our actions cause someone else to stumble then we should consider changing. I know there are people that just seem to thrive on their legalism. Sometimes these folks go way beyond solid doctrine. BUT the bible does teach that if any man loves the world the love of the Father is not in him. If the love of music is at a high place in your life then you might have an issue with God. MIGHT! Sometime we hold on to stuff that God is trying to get out of us so he can replace it with something else. Our stubbornness can get in the way of our walk with God. Dumb sheep that we are! rofl

I agree!

Also, I like money. I just dont love money.

[scooteraz]

...Also, I like money. I just dont love money.

Money is a tool, nothing more. Loving money is like loving your Craftsman table saw.

[Micter]

Money is a tool, nothing more. Loving money is like loving your Craftsman table saw.

I don't love my Craftsman table saw near as much as I love my Ridgid band saw. rofl

[bek]

My advice, ask questions of other believers as you did here, but follow the Lords leadings........


Working on it, with the help of you and others! Great exchange of viewpoints, here, and much appreciated.

[Kitty]

If you are at all questioning if God is dealing with you to give up the music you need to find out for sure for yourself.
That's a key sentence right there. I agree completely. And surely your heavenly Father can find a way to let you know of his guidance if you ask him.

[Kitty]

My inclination is to become more and more detached all the time from temporal things, in general. This includes many aspects of the mainstream church.
LOL! Right on, brother.

I once asked the Lord if I should be using a certain musical instrument that I had (long, irrelevant story). He answered me with a question, as he often does. He just said "do you want to be wondering about that every time you play it?"

I packed it up and gave it away that day. Nobody told me I should or shouldn't, not even my Father. But he asked me a pretty darn good clarifying question, and then let me decide.

That conversation would not have even taken place, say, 5 years earlier. We change, we grow, we mellow, we get more serious, we relax... I still say follow your own convictions for the time being, and be open and allow the Holy Spirit to change your convictions anytime in the future.

Kitty

[LesStrat]

It was a Daisy Rock guitar wasn't it? Wasn't it?












;)

[Teleguy]

...I don't think it's a "one answer fits all" kind of situation, although it's being presented to me that way. I covet your viewpoints.

Sounds like a doctrinaire person has tried to pursuade you to join them in their bias, not honestly examine your peace with God about it.

Happy is he whose heart condemneth him not for anything which he alloweth.

Knowing that my heart is desperately treachorous, I must examine these issues. But I will stand before God and He knows my heart, Faith, and struggles. No one else really does.

I play, perform, and listen to (and own CD's of) all kinds of music. When what I hear is over the top, I get a shift in my peace, and I don't want to hear that piece of music anymore. "Sympathy for the Devil," by the Rolling Stones, comes to mind.

Yes, I could ignore the Still Small Voice, or sear my conscience, but eventually I feel the Spirit grieving. Nothing can separate us from the Love of God which is in Jesus Christ. It's not racial bias (there is a LOT of that around sometimes in doctrinaire people, especially as concerns popular music, which in The United States has most of its roots in music first created by black people), or rules. It is the Rule of Love.

[Kitty]

It was a Daisy Rock guitar wasn't it? Wasn't it?
No, a Hello Kitty Ukulele, actually.













:wasntme:

[Strat-tastic]

I once asked the Lord if I should be using a certain musical instrument that I had (long, irrelevant story). He answered me with a question, as he often does.

He's good at questions that lead to wisdom isn't He. Just ask Job.

[stephen]

No, a Hello Kitty Ukulele, actually.













:wasntme:


roflroflroflroflroflroflroflrofl

Got any pictures?