Pat Robertson has never been my favorite....

[scooteraz]

but this is beyond the pale (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=upiUPI-20100114-092002-8771&show_article=1). Any ideas as to how he came by this pronouncement?

[mattd]

I think he made a pact with the devil to spew lies like that.

[scooteraz]

I think he made a pact with the devil to spew lies like that.

Hey, get off the fence and tell us what you are really thinkingrofl

[Crunchyriff]

Well, I'll say this: I don't always agree with Pat. I don't think his timing is very good at times, either. That said, never underestimate the current media's ability to misrepresent a sound bite... and, they did. I listened to that whole segment they gleaned that line from. What they didn't report was Pat's empathy for this tragedy and stating "they need all the prayers, support and resources we can muster" (paraphrased). Gee, you didn't see anybody report that part of what he said, dija? Of course not.

The truth is, Haiti has been a hideously impoverished nation for years and YES, at a point in time, certain voodoo witch doctors made a deal with Satan so they would be rid of the French. I know people who minister down there and the nation is rife with voodoo to this day. That said, that 'pact' ended, and allegedly, the curse was broken. Aristede' the man who Bill Clinton basically put in power down there for a season, was a corrupt mongrel trying to make Voodoo the official state religion. He eventually got run out on a rail by the people & fled... to the USA, iirc. Voodoo still has a stronghold in Haiti, and there are those that would return Haiti to a time of saturation with witchcraft. But I digress.

Anyway, at this juncture- the issue is not casting out devils, it's saving people's lives & having empathy for humanity in a time of disaster... probably a bad time to bring up the Voodoo aspect on your broadcast, Pat.

There are not only people in a demonic funk down there (that need Jesus) there are many Christians down there as well.

[Kitty]

never underestimate the current media's ability to misrepresent a sound bite
True!

But you'd think Pat would know that too, after all this time.

[scooteraz]

IDK, I've heard the sound bite several times, long and short versions. It is hard to listen to that and not come to the conclusion that he thinks that the reason for the earthquake is this pact. The media didn't have to take it out of context, it made almost as much sense as Danny Glover's comments.

YouTube- Broadcast Yourself..

[stephen]

Sometimes I wonder, Does he just make this stuff up on the fly, or does he truly believe it?

The isle of Haiti made a pact with the devil. Where does he get this stuff?

Hey, I have been to Haiti, and yes, voodoo is rampant there, but the isle as a whole in 1833 (or whenever he said it was) asked for a deal with the devil? Come on.

If he would have said, "Well, this is a horrible tragedy, and my hope is out of this, they will turn away from the voodoo they have given themselves over to for centuries now, and return to God". But what he muttered? Oi-vay!

[Crunchyriff]

Well, in a biblical sense, what about Achan's sin? One man's sin affected the whole nation... and many paid a price for that sin. Yes, I understand this was O.T.

Katrina hit N.O. good and hard, and yes I do believe it was a wake-up call for them. They didn't answer the phone.

Instead, they went right back to Mardi-Gras... I don't think that's a good sign.

In today's NT theology we have been ostensibly taught or led to believe that God today is all touchy-feely; and that because of Grace, there is no consequence or retribution. I hear that all the time, whether people know they are saying it or not. But then we look at what happened to Ananias & Sapphira in the book of Acts... they were both smitten dead, "and great fear fell over the church", and rightfully so. We don't want to acknowledge this, but it is what it is.

There is no fear of God today, either within or outside of the Church in society. I think God has something to say about that, and reserves the right to make a point.

That said, I do not blame each and every Haitian. Nor am I saying what Pat said is factual. But in light of the word of God, whether we want to admit it or not, it is Biblical.

Jesus pronounced woes over different cities, and those things came to pass... including His prophesying the destruction of the Temple because of their sin.

"Give us Barabbas!" They got Barabbas, allright.

All that said- We don't KNOW for certain as of yet why this happened aside from the fact that a 7.0 earthquake hit Haiti. Whatever the reason or reasons, including just a freak accident of Nature, the Haitian people need prayers, help, and support.

As far as information on the Haiti/Satanic pact: here is but one of many resources. The article was written in 2004. It is pretty well done, with many links to back-up the piece.

http://www.americandaily.com/article/95

[jrc]

There is no fear of God today, either within or outside of the Church in society. I think God has something to say about that, and reserves the right to make a point.

For sure.

[LesStrat]

I prefer Franklin Graham's response.

YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.

[Crunchyriff]

I prefer Franklin Graham's response.

YouTube- Broadcast Yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSS3JxRfgqY)

AMEN!!

[jrc]

A note from Tommy Tenney said that the quake was no more judgement on Haiti than Katrina was judgement on N.O. He said if God was trying to punish N.O, His aim was bad - he missed Bourbon St.

[LesStrat]

Good point from Br. Tenney.

[Crunchyriff]

God never misses (of course we know that...). What if God left Bourbon St up to see if they would return to it, or not?

They couldn't wait to return to depravity.

[Micter]

It cracks me up how everybody seems to know what God did or didn't do. If we will be honest, we have absolutely no idea what God does or doesn't do. All these prideful pundents are the worst. Who are we to say what happened in Haiti isn't God's judgment on a nation laden with witchcraft? What if it is just another of the birth pains Jesus prophesied about? The fact is no one knows for sure what happened in Haiti, New Orleans, India, etc. etc. aren't God's judgment. To act like we do is just prideful.

Isaiah 55

8 “ For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the LORD.
9 “ For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.

[Crunchyriff]

Well, said, Micter. But with that, God DOES disclose his activities.

Amos 3:7 says: "For God does nothing without revealing his secret to his servants the prophets."

If God gives somebody a Revelation of what He's going to do and/or WHY it's going to happen, that's not pride. IF that was the case, every single OT and NT prophet of the Lord would be guilty of pride.

In all actuality, Katrina WAS prophesied both by Kim Clement, and a few others in the body. All that said, God reveals what He will according to his own desires, and sometimes gives us reasons. Sometimes He expects us to figure them out by what we know of His revealed character & nature. Sometimes, though, He leaves the mystery to remain about an issue, for His purposes.

[Micter]

Well, said, Micter. But with that, God DOES disclose his activities.

Amos 3:7 says: "For God does nothing without revealing his secret to his servants the prophets."

If God gives somebody a Revelation of what He's going to do and/or WHY it's going to happen, that's not pride. IF that was the case, every single OT and NT prophet of the Lord would be guilty of pride.

In all actuality, Katrina WAS prophesied both by Kim Clement, and a few others in the body. All that said, God reveals what He will according to his own desires, and sometimes gives us reasons. Sometimes He expects us to figure them out by what we know of His revealed character & nature. Sometimes, though, He leaves the mystery to remain about an issue, for His purposes.

Good point about Amos 3:7. In all honesty, most of us aren't prophets thus we don't see through a prophetic anointing. :)

Heck, for that matter, most "Christian" churches don't think there are any more prophets. How does God do anything if there aren't any prophets?

[LesStrat]

Further, many churches do not believe that God is ACTIVE today.:wasntme::cry:

[Crunchyriff]

Yes, you are quite right, Vic. Many folks believe 'the prophets' are for yesterday, and they are quite mistaken.

The office & place of the genuine, divine Prophets in the body of Christ is being restored by the Lord; this is both to prepare His bride to minister in these last days, as well as prepare the Bride to receive her Groom.

[stephen]

Moved this thread into Doctrine: Just seems like a better fit here.

[Strat-tastic]

Jesus appears to teach in Luke 13: 1-5 that natural disasters are not always a direct result of sin:

1Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2Jesus answered, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish."

:hmm:

[Crunchyriff]

This is a by-product of living in a fallen world, where the devil loves to steal, kill and destroy. Great quote!

[Micter]

Jesus appears to teach in Luke 13: 1-5 that natural disasters are not always a direct result of sin:

1Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2Jesus answered, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish."

:hmm:

I see Jesus telling people that if they don't repent they will perish in the same manner. Meaning, if they continue in sin they will be destroyed just as the others were.

[Crunchyriff]

That too, is quite true. Especially from an eternal perspective.

[ptrallan01]

Ephesians 4:12 and He gave some Apostles, and some Prophets and some Evangelists and some Pastors and teachers.... for the building up of the church.

Prophets have been active through all Christendom but we don't like to listen because they say things we don't like, are not politically correct and step on our freedom to do what we want. Prophets function as goads and we seem to enjoy kicking against it for some reason. (We being society in general NOT the church).

It is easy to say that someone is wrong when they say that a person's, a city's, a ethnic group or nation's actions have brought jugdment on them because it comes at a painful time when our compassion and empathy speak for comfort to the survivors and those in pain. Yet, if God were to speak to YOU and tell you he judged someone or some group and brought destruction down on them would you be willing to stand up publicly and say so?

I don't know if God judged Haiti this way or not, but I won't criticize someone for saying it. I wasn't in the conversation between them and God so I don't know.

Hebrews tells us that Jesus is the same yesterday today and tomorrow. If He used prophets in the OT and promised us that they were a gift to the church in the NT, then they are still operating today. We need to prayerfully review each message with God and see if it is from Him, after all Jesus did say, "My sheep know my voice." We should be able to hear and distinguish when He speaks. Perhaps the church should go into prayer to seek God's face about whether this is a judgement from Him or just a consequence of living in a fallen world that has been cursed.

love always.

Peter

[Kitty]

I appreciate all the perspectives on this topic. I think everyone has contributed something of value. I especially like how you just put things, Peter.