Looking for critism

[Hooligan]

Here is a recording of us doing "New Hallelujah" this past Sunday. It was the first song of the day and I think the vocals took some time waking up......LOL

I am playing slide on my newly hot rodded Les Paul. The tone is a patch I down loaded from the line 6 custom tone web site. It's a tone someone sculpted to play "Crazy Train"

Don't tell Smitty I used a Sabbath tone for one of his songs.

I tried to play underneath the lead guitar player while still adding some flair to what is really a pretty boring song to play. I really like the slide at the beginning. Over all I think the guitar sounded really pretty good. You can really hear the full tone at the end of the bridge and again at the very end. I let the "G" ring out for a good long while, maybe too long but I was really enjoying the tone. I am also doing some arppigiating. The lead guy is chuging the chords and doing the little hook.

http://www.farhills.org/uploads/newhallelujah101809.mp3

Went through all the effort doing a bunch of upgrades and I end up playing acoustic three of the four songs Sunday. Won't be able to play again until December.......Oi Vey!

[MadHatter]

hey, given your lack of experience with the slide I thought you did really well....
slide is something that takes a real subtle touch to do really well, watch some derek trucks or sonny landreth.....

as for criticisms I'd suggest adding a wider vibrato with the slide, and slide into the notes a bit faster....
also, I'd avoid trying to match what the other guitar player was doing... if your not spot on it sounds out of tune and a little distracting

keep it up, there are lots of times I'd like to play slide in church if I had someone else playing guitar with me, so count your self lucky

[MusicChad]

A few thoughts off the top of my head:

I thought your tone and playing sounded really good. I thought the licks you played, etc. were well executed, in tune, tasty, etc. If I had to guess, it sounded like you were using a glass slide (perhaps steel?) which yields a pretty bright tone and can sound a bit thin... I tend to prefer a brass slide which sounds a bit "warmer" but this is entirely preference. You did do a great job of hitting the "gap" tone wise where it wasn't too thin sounding, but also wasn't so full that it wouldn't sit well in the mix. So, tone wise, playing, being in tune, etc. all were great!

The ONLY thing I may suggest is somewhat a matter of philosophy and may or may not be helpful for you in this case... I thought that your echos, doubling of the main lead, harmonies, etc. were cool. However, I also felt this exposed something else... One of the tricks with electric guitar in a church setting (and this would also be true for keyboard players) is that when a player goes from doing rhythm stuff to more "lead" stuff, it can feel like something is suddenly "missing" from the overall sound... It is just like when a keyboard player is laying down a really nice thick pad sound or strings, etc. Your ear may not be immediately drawn to that sound as being distinct, etc. but if they suddenly drop out so they can do a different sound or a melody thing, all of the sudden the overall mix sounds "thin" "wimpy" or like something just "quit working"... The same is very much true with rhythm guitar parts. Unfortunately, in a lot of churches there is only one electric guitar player - so to some extent it becomes a necessary evil...

In your setting with two electric guitars, it would be ideal to have one player covering rhythm stuff and one player covering lead stuff... The other electric guitar player sounded like he was playing a lead thing during the intros, interludes, etc. and then playing a rhythm part during the verses. During the verses I thought your playing was PERFECT as you did some lead things to add interest and added "color" while the other player laid the "foundation". During the intros and interludes, the other player did more "color" stuff with the lead things and it sounded like at times you kind of did some foundation stuff with the longer held out chords and other times did the echos and stuff which while very very cool were also "color" things... That just left me feeling like a bit of "foundation" was missing.

Now - It is entirely possibly that there were some keyboards that were pretty full in the house or something as well that didn't stand out on tape as much for whatever reason. If that was the case, then this "gap" in the guitar foundation would have been less significant. Also, on tape it is really hard to get a sense of the bass filling up a room which also has the effect of filling that sonic space.

Long story short, I thought your playing was excellent with great ideas, nice and very musical echos and so forth that added greatly to the song. The ONLY real criticism would have been that it felt like the "foundation" went away at times during the intro and interludes. It may have been better to do low slides into chords like you did at the very start of the song or something just to fill the role of "foundation" even though what you did was very cool. It would be normal and appropriate for two electric players to kind of "trade off" responsibilities. This way (again in an ideal world) somebody has the "foundation" covered and somebody else has the "lead" covered. As a second choice, if both players do a lead thing and play off each other, etc. (kind of like what you did) that is an OK second choice. This option still has the symptom of loosing a little "foundation" but may be hidden by keyboards, bass, vocals, etc. The last choice would be to have one guy playing lead while the other guy did both some lead stuff and some rhythm stuff during the same interlude for example... This draws even more attention to the "foundation" clicking "in" and "out" making it more obvious... Slide playing is kind of a strange not quite lead at times style of playing depending on what is done... I felt that on occasion you did more rhythm-ish slide stuff AND more lead-ish kind of slide stuff in the same interlude...

Again, please note that this may have been entirely hidden by keyboards, the acoustics of the room, etc.

So either way, what you played was very cool and well done... You may just want to remember that ideally both "lead" and "rhythm" sound spaces should always be covered, and in worse case, at least "jump ship" and either play straight lead or straight rhythm...

Listen to any Stevie Ray Vaughn and Double Trouble stuff (a trio) and notice how SRV plays both rhythm stuff and lead stuff. Also notice how for the most part, when he shifts gears, he totally shifts... I always feel like "whoa - the foundation just went away" when he shifts, but I quickly forget because I'm listening to the ripping solo and my ear pretty quickly gets used to the "new" foundation of just the drums and bass. If he tried to do lead AND cover the rhythm, it would make it a bit harder for my ear to get comfortable with the "foundation"...

Sorry - this got a lot longer than I originally intended. I just hope this is helpful as it is a bit on the "philosophical" side...

Again, please be encouraged as I thought everything you played was very cool and well done. If you had been the only guitar player, I would have ZERO complaints as it is a necessary compromise, but with two guitar players, you may have been able to better cover that base...

Hope it helps... God bless you! (And by the way, I still LOVE your passion and enthusiasm! You make me feel like a tired old fart who just doesn't care enough anymore...)

[scooteraz]

LOL - we played that about two weeks ago, and you are right, it is a bit of a snoozefest to play (bass being no better than guitar on this). And I don't think our vocals started it out much better than yours the first service we did it. I think you made a pretty good effort here, and the good Lord knows my slide skills are lacking. So, for what it is worth...

I was trying to figure out who all was a bit flat on the opening. Singers are for sure, but I think it is the lead guitar doesn't quite get the bend up far enough on the opening hook. At first I thought it was you on slide, the way the song went, I decided I heard you behind the guitar that was off.

I would echo what MadHatter and MusicChad said. I felt the slides behind the hook were a little too much of a repeat of the hook, and accentuated the fact that he was just a bit flat on his bends. If you could have either just slid into the chord and sat there, or played arpeggios there, it may have been better. I'm not sure the repeat of the hook was as effective.

Also, for what it is worth, the two guitars have very similar tones (both sound like LPs and Marshalls) and it may be worthwhile to try to get a little separation of tone.

Like MusicChad, I like your enthusiasm. I am considering doing "Everlasting God" a week from Wed in open G and with slide on my VHR Tele. But I would have to retune back to regular tuning for the next song or take an extra guitar....let you know how that turns out.