Judge Not?

[LesStrat]

(My apologies if this appears a bit "rambling.")

We frequently encounter those who quote the verse, “Judge not lest ye be judged.” Typically it is used as condemnation (read: judgment) of those who would dare confront sinful behavior.

The Bible has explicit instructions for confronting sin. The "judge not" reference is one of the most misquoted verses in Scripture, usually by unbelievers. Jesus is clearly instructing us how to handle such situations, including a stern warning to get our acts together before confronting others. Yet He DOES NOT say to never confront sin. He spoke against censoriousness, not legitimate criticism or even condemnation of wrongdoing (Matt 7). Jesus directly addressed sin whenever He was confronted with it (Pharisees’ self-righteousness, instructions to sinners to “sin no more”, Simon Peter’s pride, etc.).

Matthew 18:15-17 plainly states the manner in which we are to confront an erring brother. If we never judge the behavior of others, how could we know a brother’s “error?” Paul (1Th 5:21-22) and John (1John 4) instruct us to “test the spirits”. How can we do so without some form of “judgment”?

First, we cannot spend our time seeking ways to criticize others. Second, we should walk daily in an attitude of prayer (1Th 4:17). Third, we should heed James advice (Ch. 1) and seek wisdom.

We should not judge others with regard to morally neutral issues (such as the Apostle Paul’s teachings regarding “stumbling blocks”). This becomes legalistic and serves no spiritual purpose.

We must correct our own faults and solve our own problems before attempting to correct faults or problems in others. Any judgmental attitude in ourselves should signal the need for self-examination for things that bother us about others. We cannot do any of this without the guidance and healing power of the Holy Spirit.

The church has become far too liberal in its practices in recent years. The Bible does offer clear guidance for relationships. There is far too much rationalization based on personal desires (read: "happiness") that clearly does not line up with Biblical principals. We cannot decide which parts of the Bible we like. That is legalism, not when we confront behavior that is clearly sinful (recent experience with "former" band members comes to mind).

Even so, Jesus cautioned us against judgment without personal holiness. If we are attempting to correct others without seeking forgiveness for our own sin, then we stand to be judged as well. None of this should be taken lightly. Instead, we must provide godly correction and guidance.

That said, Jesus spoke even more clearly on forgiveness and restoration. The former is so that our hearts can be clean. The latter cannot occur without repentance, though. Yet, with repentance true forgiveness and restoration are possible.

It is not that we should never judge others. Rather, we are to pursue holiness and righteousness. When we encounter sin, we should seek God FIRST for forgiveness and cleanliness that only He can provide. We need His wisdom so that we can allow Him to speak through us.

Finally, if we never confront sin, then we promote the philosophy/theology/doctrine that “anything goes.”

This certainly is not an exhaustive treatise of this issue. Hopefully it provokes discussion, thought and prayerful guidance for handling relationship issues.

[Crunchyriff]

Lee- IMHO, too many "believers" are convinced that God wants us to "be happy" while on this earth. In light of scripture, nothing could be further from the truth.

Though I concede that it is possible, even probable, to be content and full of joy while being on this globe if you are living in the will of God; God's sole focus while we are here is that we answer the call, be light, and FINISH THE RACE that is before us.

When we finally behold Jesus in His glory for eternity: then and only then, will we truly experience happiness in all fullness.

[LesStrat]

He does promise Joy Unspeakable, though.

That does not equate to "happiness." Rather, it is more of a way of life or a state of being.

We've been talking to several people recently about relationship problems. One of our points is that another person CANNOT make you happy. You can share God's joy, but you cannot even give that to each other.

[LesStrat]

http://www.bible.ca/bible.gif

[Crunchyriff]

"He does promise Joy Unspeakable, though."

ABSOLUTELY! I'm living it. God is so wonderful. You can go through unimaginable trials, AND YET, HAVE THIS!!

[maestrovert]

"Judgement" can be misconstrued...there is a vast difference between assessment and condemnation...

Scripture plainly tells us to assess ourselves, lest we be condemned Lk6:37
1Cor11:31 confirms this

as a sinner saved by Grace, i cannot ever justify myself sitting in condemnation of another believer, i have no right gathering stones to cast about...
there is only ONE qualified to Judge, and it ain't me....an' i've got news for ya Brothers and Sisters, it ain't you either.
Ro14:4

it was a self righteous condemnatory/judgemental attitude that was the point of Jesus' telling of the Pharisee and the Publican praying at the Temple in
Luke 18:9-14
that attitude toward others is sinful in my assessment....in all humility i beg that it may never be laid to my charge, for i know the blackness of my own sin, the blindness of my soul, the beam in my eyes and my dire need of His forgiveness....i am, after all, a sinner saved only by HIS Grace

[mattd]

I Corinthians 5:12
For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."

[maestrovert]

i do not want my previous post to be miscontrued....no one in a ministerial capacity has escaped wrestling with this topic....
Good Lord, the things i've seen people do and allow into their lives.....it truly breaks my heart...

i know it's a wee bit cliche' sounding, but i've found that it's true: "Hate the sin, but not the sinner"...

i do condemn sin, vociferously....but i find it difficult if not impossible to have a condemnatory attitude toward a sinner i'm seeking to help heal and restore....someone who struggles as i do in this life where no one made of flesh is perfect...
Church discipline is another matter, those matters are in the hands of the whole congregation when/if i have failed....

Gal 6:1 "Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted."

If anyone had a right to condemn a sinner, it was Michael the archangel when faced by the adversary....
Jude 1:9"Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. "

[LesStrat]

maestro, the point is that the world, and yes even many Christians, have adopted an attitude that we are to accept everything because we should "judge not." I cannot find justification for that approach in Scripture without ignoring key passages.

The issue with former band members that i alluded to had to do with UNREPENTANCE. There can be no restoration without repentance.

"Hate the sin, love the sinner" is critical to our Christian walk. That is the point of avoiding a spirit of censoriousness. We cannot become "judgmental" and remain godly. We CAN judge situations and behaviors, though.

This is especially true of those in leadership positions. We cannot avoid confronting sin and expect success in ministry. Lives cannot be changed without conviction, confession, and repentance.

[TheViking]

The word of God is usually crystal clear. However people tend to cloud things up pretty good. Any brief look at the history of Christianity should make that pretty obvious. A lot of strange, outrageous and right out evil things have been done in the name of the Lord, most of the time, with scripture in hand.

While the word of God is infallible, we who interprets it are not. Personality, opinions and experiences, even cultural background, can and will color our understanding of the Holy Scriptures. Just take a look at the number of denominations and even sub denominations. Even within the same denominations you will find huge differences in generally accepted beliefs.

You do not need to be a theologian or any kind of scholar to get the idea of something being written in a context. If we allow passages to be taken out of context, we create an opportunity for chaos to arise. If we start to cut, copy and paste the Holy Scripture to suit our own views instead of adapting ourselves to the Scriptures, we have already lost before we begin.

Confronting sin, if done in the right manner, with the right motives can’t be anything but good. Confronting sin should be about allowing a person to see his or hers wrongdoings, confess and repent, in order to be set free.

Confronting sin, if done in the wrong manner, with the wrong motives, will seldom result in anything else than more sin.

So let’s go to look at the context.
Mat 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

Mat 7:2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

Mat 7:3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

Mat 7:4 How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?

Mat 7:5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

Ok verses 1 and 2, if you judge, you will be judged too, in the same manner as you judge. To me this is a both a promise and a warning along the lines of the golden rule Mat 7:12

Verses 3 to 5 contains more warnings and yet another promise. If you start with yourself and get your business straight with God, you will be able to clearly see how you can help your brother. If you don’t start with yourself, your judgment will be clouded.

I do not for a second believe that Jesus would contradict himself. However if you rip verse 1 out of context it would appear like he did, reading verse 15 to 20. Calling someone a false prophet would be judging in my book, but wait, it all gets summed up in verse 20. “Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.”

See my point here? Context, context, and yes context. Reading these 20 verses with an open mind should tell you the following.

If you start with yourself and get your business straight with God, you will be able to clearly see how to help your brother. Not how you can put him down or discourage him, but how to really help. If you judge, you will be judged in the same manner, with the same scale as you judge, so beware that your intentions are pure and that your actions and reactions are justified. You’re even given a tool here; “By their fruit you will recognize them”. Well, so will people when it comes to you.

[maestrovert]

maestro, the point is that the world, and yes even many Christians, have adopted an attitude that we are to accept everything because we should "judge not." I cannot find justification for that approach in Scripture without ignoring key passages.

The issue with former band members that i alluded to had to do with UNREPENTANCE. There can be no restoration without repentance.

"Hate the sin, love the sinner" is critical to our Christian walk. That is the point of avoiding a spirit of censoriousness. We cannot become "judgmental" and remain godly. We CAN judge situations and behaviors, though.

This is especially true of those in leadership positions. We cannot avoid confronting sin and expect success in ministry. Lives cannot be changed without conviction, confession, and repentance.

i am in complete agreement with you Bro'...

The point of Jesus' tale of the Pharisee & the publican in Luke 18 was the sin of pride...many who strive to live otherwise Godly lives are guilty of it just like the Pharisee...

as exemplified by my reading of Lk6:37 ("if we would assess ourselves, we would escape condemnation"): TheViking's point about context is quite valid too, hence my pointing out the difference between the assessment and condemnatory tenses of the word Judgement...


Y'know, quite often in my personal evangelism efforts i find that a common obstacle to faith is the perception of the lost that Christians are harsh judgemental hypocrites....sadly, it's all too true that there have been entirely too many instances of a blind eye being turned to willful blatant sin, both on the part of parishoners and the clergy...

Jesus' initial message "REPENT !" has lost none of it's importance, meaning or impact, and that message remains crucial (especially so to the church at large) as the book of Revelation testifies in the letters to the seven churches....

[maestrovert]

a joke, which may or may not be "funny", but has a relevant point nonetheless:

A Baptist preacher was walking across a bridge one day, and saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump. He ran over and said: "Stop. Don't do it."

"Why shouldn't I?" he asked.

"Well, there's so much to live for!"

"Like what?"

"Are you religious?"

He said, "Yes."

the preacher said, "Me too. Are you Christian, Jewish, Muslim or Buddhist?"

"i'm a Christian."

"Me too. Are you Catholic or Protestant?"

"Protestant."

"Me too. Are you Lutheran, Episcopalian, Methodist or Baptist?"

"Baptist."

"Wow. Me too. Are you Southern Baptist, Missionary Baptist, Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?"

"Baptist Church of God."

"Wow ! Me too. Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?"

"Reformed Baptist Church of God."

"Me too. Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915?"

He said: "Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915."

the preacher shouted: "Die, heretic scum," and pushed him off.

[Micter]

Being in a position of leadership I have to periodically call someone on their behavior. In doing so I have to put my life out there for them to examine as well. It goes both ways! I cant expect someone to do something I am not willing to do. In other words, I judge your sin and in doing so I understand that my sin will be judges in like manner.

[Crunchyriff]

Being in a position of leadership I have to periodically call someone on their behavior. In doing so I have to put my life out there for them to examine as well. It goes both ways! I cant expect someone to do something I am not willing to do. In other words, I judge your sin and in doing so I understand that my sin will be judges in like manner.

Very well said, and so true.

[maestrovert]

Being in a position of leadership I have to periodically call someone on their behavior. In doing so I have to put my life out there for them to examine as well. It goes both ways! I cant expect someone to do something I am not willing to do. In other words, I judge your sin and in doing so I understand that my sin will be judges in like manner.

John 8:6
This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.


Of course, when He returns, it will be to Judge...
have mercy on me LORD, a poor sinner...

[LesStrat]

Some theologians believe that Jesus was writing the sins of the PHARISEES in the dirt (Jeremiah 17:13), and their conviction caused them to leave in shame.

A significant point in the quoted passage is that the Pharisees were attempting to test/tempt/trap Jesus. They were not even following the Law of Moses, which stated that BOTH guilty parties were to be put to death (Leviticus 20:10). Where was the man? The Pharisees were using the Law for their own purposes instead of promoting righteousness. THEY were practicing censoriousness and self-righteousness instead of righteous judgment. It's the heart attitude again.

Back to the situation with a former band member: A few days ago our pastor asked the man to leave the church because he was unrepentant and gave no indication of that he intended to change. We must continue to pray that he will be convicted and turn away from his sin so that he CAN be restored.

In the passage quoted above, Jesus obviously was forgiving a woman who was convicted of her sin. He commanded her to repent with the implication that with repentance comes forgiveness.

Another thought: The Cross is accepted as the greatest example of love and forgiveness ever known. I posit that it also represents judgment and punishment for sin. When we come to the Cross we are convicted of our sin. It is there that we repent and receive forgiveness. The Resurrection is a type of complete restoration that comes with our repentance.

[maestrovert]

The Pharisees were using the Law for their own purposes instead of promoting righteousness. THEY were practicing censoriousness and self-righteousness instead of righteous judgment. It's the heart attitude again.
Amen, and AMEN !!

Another thought: The Cross is accepted as the greatest example of love and forgiveness ever known. I posit that it also represents judgment and punishment for sin. When we come to the Cross we are convicted of our sin. It is there that we repent and receive forgiveness. The Resurrection is a type of complete restoration that comes with our repentance.

Indeed the Cross does represent Judgement....

Scripture plainly tells us that God will not acquit the guilty, therefore Christ took our judgement and punishment upon Himself
Eli, Eli ! Lama sabachthani ?
This He did so that we could be set free, for the price of redemption has been paid, in full (and then some).

As i cannot help myself in this, i try very hard to get others to see the Cross from this perspective:
when i see the Cross, i know that He took my place upon it....
Yes indeed, it was my place on that Cross not His, yet He willingly went in my stead to save me ! And you too !

He knew no sin, whereas i am a sinner....
He was guiltless, and i am ashamed...as i said in an earlier post, i have no call to be gathering stones to cast about...

He came to set the captives free, and sends us under "the great commission" to do the same....for His Judgment IS coming...

[Micter]

John 8:6
This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.


Of course, when He returns, it will be to Judge...
have mercy on me LORD, a poor sinner...

There is a difference between correction and condemnation.

2 Timothy 3:16 (King James Version)

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

[maestrovert]

There is a difference between correction and condemnation.

2 Timothy 3:16 (King James Version)

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

Indeed, there is a vast difference....

Thank God !

[Mark From Hawaii]

Ahhh, an interesting AND timely discussion my brothers. The Hawaii State Legislature has proposed a Civil Unions Bill (HB 444) that gives the same rights as married couples to same-sex partners. The bill passed through the House and has been stalled in committtee in the Senate (3-3 vote). The Senate is considering an unprecedented bypass of the committee as they seem to have enough votes (a super-majority) to pass it.

House Bill 444 (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2009/Bills/HB444_.HTM)

On the night of senate testimony, some of the folks on "twitter" were espousing (pun intended) the wisdom of the legislators in favor of this law "whose time has come." It seemed like I was the lone voice against it. Of course, many began to argue against my "hateful" position. I couldn't believe that some of my Christian "tweeps" were joining in the pile on. I posted that my position is that if Jesus taught us anything about our relationship with one another and judgement, it's that we should "hate the sin but love the sinner". Apparently this did not satisfy those who reject the notion that homosexual behavior is sinful. I was a little perplexed and honestly, quite hurt that others could not respect my point of view. I guess I'm just a slow-witted, narrow-minded hater to some of these folks...

[LesStrat]

Another thought on this topic: When others get defensive and tell us to "judge not," are they not judging us?

I had a related revelation this weekend: I will no longer (I'm not sure I ever did) pray for someone's "happiness." I will pray for joy unspeakable. The former is a fleeting emotion. The latter is a way of life.

[maestrovert]

Another thought on this topic: When others get defensive and tell us to "judge not," are they not judging us?


yes, indeed they are....

it's been quite some time now, but my wife was advised by her ob/gyn Dr. to drink some Cranberry juice....
we were just sitting down to dinner one evening when a Lady from our congregation knocked on the door....we invited her in, fixed her up a plate and were soon subjected to quite a lecture about the "wine" she was drinking.....and this in full view of the Ocean Spray juice bottle on the counter !

my wife patiently explained to her what it was and why, but that wasn't quite good enough....within a week we heard rumors about our closet consumption of alcohol....and i'm sure y'all know how it is once something like that gets going....

[Kitty]

and i'm sure y'all know how it is once something like that gets going....
..... it lives on forever. Yep.

And of course your graciousness in inviting her in as an unexpected dinner guest was quickly forgotten in light of this "loose behavior," right?

(Not that I think there's anything wrong whatsoever in having wine with dinner, but I can understand the point of view of those who think otherwise.)

[Strat-tastic]

On the night of senate testimony, some of the folks on "twitter" were espousing (pun intended) the wisdom of the legislators in favor of this law "whose time has come." It seemed like I was the lone voice against it. Of course, many began to argue against my "hateful" position. I couldn't believe that some of my Christian "tweeps" were joining in the pile on. I posted that my position is that if Jesus taught us anything about our relationship with one another and judgement, it's that we should "hate the sin but love the sinner". Apparently this did not satisfy those who reject the notion that homosexual behavior is sinful. I was a little perplexed and honestly, quite hurt that others could not respect my point of view. I guess I'm just a slow-witted, narrow-minded hater to some of these folks...

You did well Mark to shine the light, but the darkness can not understand it, and will try anything to put it out. See what happened to Jesus!

Keep on in the Lord brother, your work is not in vain. :cross:

[maestrovert]

Here's a link to a thread on the same topic on the TDPRI forum (http://www.tdpri.com/forum/bad-dog-cafe/152976-being-judgemental-how-avoid.html)....
there's plenty of secular and/or atheist viewpoints, and not suprisingly, while claiming Christians are harsh and judgemental, they are definitely harsher in their judgements than we generally are...

[Zhangliqun]

"He does promise Joy Unspeakable, though."

ABSOLUTELY! I'm living it. God is so wonderful. You can go through unimaginable trials, AND YET, HAVE THIS!!

As one who battles mental illness in the form of sometimes debilitating depression, I can testify to this too. I have experienced this joy even in the middle of terrible episodes of sleeplessness and anxiety.

Believers and nonbelievers alike often confuse correction with condemnation. We have no capacity, never mind a right, to judge souls (to condemn the person), but we can to a limited degree judge behavior and we are called on to do so. There's a big difference between "I saw you looking at a pack of cigarettes, therefore you're going to Hell, heathen scum!" and "I know you want to remain a Sunday school teacher, but copulating with your students in the church parking lot kinda gets in the way of that, sorry."