What sound system does your church use?

[reverbbb]

We have a fairly decent sound system at our church. But the weakest link in the chain is actually the most important one. The speakers. Our worship center only has a 9~10 foot ceiling and holds about 275~300 people.

There are times when we just cannot get the system to sound good. But yesterday, the system was sounding pretty good. I'm usually playing so I don't get to hear it too often. But yesterday, we had another P&W team playing so I got to hear and help tweak the system. Our biggest problems are:

a) not enough room fill so there are many dead spots.

b) huge void of bass frequencies.

The dead spots are caused by not having the correct speakers and having them placed in odd places. The speakers that we use (JBL Powered EON 15") were intended for frontal project for like DJs and PA. They are not that good at projecting 20~300Hz for the bass guitar and bass drum. When those frequncies (or instruments) ar pushed, they clip. So, the result is very weak application of low frequencies instruments.

Our system is basically:

Mackie 24 ch board
Four JBL Powered EON speakers
Alesis Microverb
Behringer Feedback Destroyer
and a hodge-podge of monitor speakers (2 Hot Spots, 2 JBL EON 10 - all self-powered).

We had a sound consultant come in and make some recommendations. Here are the ones that I remember:

1) Take one of the EON monitors and place it up side down facing the middle of the audience and above their head (we will loose some of our monitor mix).

2) Add acoustic sound board to the back (brick) wall to reduce the monitor reflection to the audience.

3) Turn my guitar amp backwards and face the back wall. This one was odd to me because I have my amp facing across the stage from the far right side. This is so that I don't blast the folks in the front row. But by facing my open back amp to towards the wall, the front row now gets blasted from the back of the speaker and now direct reflection from the back all.

4) Turn the levels down of the second pair of EON 12. The front pair should do the most work while the back pair should just be lightly applied to help continue the sound fill towards the back. I agree with this, but I have never tried them as low a level as they are set now. It seemed to help a lot for getting rid of some hot spots towards the back. But now the soundman cannot hear as accurately.

There were a few other suggestions, but those seem to be the most significant ones. The consult is a proffesional and he does not represent any brands. So we got a very good perspective. However, he was not there to make his suggestions when we were actually playing as a band. He apparently used the CD player for many of his observations. The band offers a completely different dynamics, especially when the room is full of people. I wish he would come on Sunday morning.

So, what is you sysyem like?

[stephen]

....but this is what I know:

We have a mackie 24 channel mixer, with a combination of mackie and carvin poweramps, equalizers, and power conditioners, etc..

We have two sets of speaker cabinets, carvin, and one other: the name escapes me :oops:

All Sure Microphones: My fav work horse, the SM57's, and SM 58's.

Even though we are in a convertyed YMCA gymnasium, our sound is decent, though we do plan to add some acoustical tiles, and padding in key area's, to lessen the heavy echoing (if you clap once, it sounds like a standing ovation!).

Tone wise, our system is pretty sweet, I cant fault the tone at all. Our biggest problem with the sound system, is the one or two volunteers, that arent true sound men. They are trying, and we greatly appreaciate it, and we keep praying that one day it will click with them!

[Wally]

Don't call it a sound system :shock:

Fender Passport portable, not sure which model. We just run the vocals through it; tried running the keyboard and guitar through once and the vocals were drowned out more than usual.

[LesStrat]

Well, we have pretty much a pro setup. Thanks to Hurricane Lili we have new speakers, monitors, and main poweramps (lots!). The main mixer (Mackie 24 ch), monitor mixer (Mackie 16 ch) and the monitor amps are pre-hurricane stock. Eight main speaker cabs suspended from the ceiling, and 2 hidden subs on either side of the stage. Our church is set up theater style, with sloped seating on the main floor, staircase seating in the balcony, and theater lighting. Also, thanks to Lili we have new projector screens and projectors.

[PVTele]

Our worship auditorium only holds about 120, it's upstairs, with about 17ft to the very top, but beams across at about 9ft. On the front one of those beams - just in front of where the band stand - are 2 300W Carlsboro Beta 115 speakers (1x15" + HF), and on the floor are 2 Amptech Wedge monitors, 1 active, 120W, 1 passive. Power amp 300+300W Carlsboro CPX600, 16/2 Studiomaster Diamond desk. 16/4 multicore and all XLR points built into floor and side wall, with one pair AC outlets for every three XLRs. Mics are Audio Technica AT Pro 22a, and one AT ATM 11 (condenser) podium mic. Mixture of active & passive DI's.

But we're planning to replace everything except the mics & speakers before the end of the year! Anyone have any stunning suggestions???

[LesStrat]

Yes, do something about those beams! They're feedback demons!

Seriously, I use to be a member of a church with big beams every 8' or so. Those things get the sound between them and create feedback loops.

[PVTele]

Feedback demons! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Actually ours aren't too bad from that point of view - they just create odd acoustic shadows, so you get loud and soft points all down the rows.

Naturally, all the older folks who prefer hymns & harmoniums sit in the loud spots, while all the younger ones who just want to rock sit in the quiet spots - and all of them try to persuade the sound guy to turn up/down according to taste :roll:

No, the main point to decide is whether to replace the mixer & the power amp with separates or with a mixer-amp, and whether to go for a data projector (we've a spare PC that could run it) or stick with acetates. And also whether to go for a desk with built in DFX (like most mixer-amps) or with FX send & return, and a separate rackmount processor. We don't need all that of FX, just some ambience really, as the acoustic's rather dead, due to the (relatively) low ceiling and the thick carpet. Keyboard and my guitar processor have everything we'd need - neither of our acoustic guitarists go much for FX on their instruments, beyond a little reverb.

[reverbbb]

Be sure to read about my church's recent fiasco with a Bose L1 system.

http://www.strhosting.co.uk/TelecasterPW/viewtopic.php?t=106&highlight=

[PVTele]

I hear ya, Roger! I've never been struck on Bose gear anyway - though we do have a pair of Bose speakers in the coffee bar downstairs at church, and they're kind of OK... But the L1 system's too clever for its own good, IMHO, and horribly expensive if you do it properly.

I've asked a guy from Harmony Music in Dorchester to come out and look things over, and measure SPL's and so on - he's coming tomorrow morning, so I'll let you know how we get on...

[PVTele]

Wow! Matthew & John from Harmony Music came and spent the whole morning measuring things and testing things, and came up with some revolutionary conclusions:

Our present power amp and desk are fine - the problem is those hulking 15" + horn speakers, mounted up on the beams. They demonstrated disastrous things happening acoustically right through the building... No wonder we've been getting complaints!

Solution? Install Carlsbro NLingtN NXT Distributed Mode Loudspeakers. These are flat panels about 18x30", totally (but totally) non-directional. No feedback, at all - you can put a mic 3" away dead on axis at full power, and nothing. :shock:

(You can read about the physics & engineering on the NXT website http://www.nxtsound.com/technology/index.php)

No need for foldback - the band hears just the same as every single person in the place - absolutely incredible - no matter where you are the sound's the same, crystal clear, warm, realistic... Uncanny - rewrites the laws of acoustics... These things rock!

Their suggestion is to try a pair of these to begin with, and then add later, if required (and they don't think we will) a 32-band graphic post EQ, a NanoVerb, and/or a 1x18" sub-bass bin & crossover.

Oh and we need a new tape deck - the present one's dying - but we knew that anyway :wink:

Praise the Lord - what a simple and (relatively) inexpensive and elegant (oh how utterly elegant you'd have to hear to believe) solution! Couldn't have believed it possible unless I'd heard it with my own ears...

[bvmjethead]

We're in the middle of revamping our entire system.

We just got through getting the in ear monitor system, cordless. It's the shizzle.

The guy who heads up out sound department is Jim Carey, he's been doing all the sound for Billy Graham ministries worldwide for like the last 30 years. He know's his stuff.

Once we get new speakers hung, the subs tucked away and some new amps we'll be set.

Come worship with us if ya'll are ever in Hampton.
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