Fort Worth Stomp Box maker - Good prices...

[kewlpack]

Just an FYI for anyone looking for boutique type pedals at a reasonable price...

http://www.protonepedals.com/index.shtml

[Brad]

Thanks for the link. I've checked out his stuff before and it looks great. I was going to get one of his Thrusters before I came upon the Valve. Still may have a go with them later down the road though. His stuff gets great reviews also. Nice to see someone making quality gear at affordable price points.

[SAguitar]

Thanks, Kewlpack! :cool:

[ProTonePedals]

Wow... Pro Tone Pedals turns up in some awesome places. I love it! Thanks for the mention
I was just sorting through my web referers and found this page. I'll be back! Its nice to go someplace without all the normal nonesense that goes on in some of the other boards.

For anyone looking into buying a Por Tone Pedal- mention this board and get 10% off!

With gratitude,

Dennis Mollan
www.ProTonePedals.com

[kewlpack]

Hey Dennis -

I was 95% committed to buying a ProTone SpitFire Saturday at the Austin TX Vintage Guitar show... they had one there for $89! :shock I was soooo close.

I didn't go for it because I wasn't sure how it would work with my BOSS GT-8 in the tone chain... I could put it in the FX Loop of the GT8, but I wasn't convinced it would work well. I run the GT8 up front and into the clean channel on my amp.

One of the mildly irritating things that the GT8 does when you go straight into it from the guitar is lose some of the dynamics and pick attack. The loss isn't as evident if I put the GT8 in my amp's FX Loop and only use it for effects (versus modeling amps). I was trying to find a way to retain those dynamics by putting a pedal in front of the GT8... of course, that screws up the tone a bit...

AURHGH... what to do?!

Any thoughts - I expect you are probably a tone chain guru? :)

[prscustom24]

One of the mildly irritating things that the GT8 does when you go straight into it from the guitar is lose some of the dynamics and pick attack. The loss isn't as evident if I put the GT8 in my amp's FX Loop and only use it for effects (versus modeling amps). I was trying to find a way to retain those dynamics by putting a pedal in front of the GT8... of course, that screws up the tone a bit...

AURHGH... what to do?!



Forgive my butting in, but since I was looking at the GT8 specs iref the other thread: assuming it has on-board compression, have you tried turning that off, and do you get the dynamics back? I may be misunderstanding your description, but it sounds like when you patch the GT8 into the amp's loop, the GT8's compressor is bypassed or no longer in the chain. The amp's front end controls dynamics and attack.

The compressor in my GSP-2101 is not one of its better features. I disable it by default in all my patches and run an Alesis analog compressor ahead of it. The key is in having control of the attack parameter, independent of ratio and release. . . some compressors won't give you this.

[kewlpack]

It has a few different compressors actually. I normally turn those off (if they happen to be on in a patch). They appear to be pretty tweakable though. I have never gotten into using compressors to be honest... so I don't know exactly what they do other than squish down the very lows and very highs.

The dynamics loss (which is admittedly slight, but noticeable) only seems to happen when I plug straight into the GT8 guitar input. If I plug into the amp - and THEN run the GT8 in the FX Loop - things sound fine. I suspect the problem lies in the amp modeling because I use the amp modeling when going into the GT8, but not when running it in the FX Loop.

Maybe we should carry this into a new thread, since this one is for ProTone goodness! :popcorn

[ProTonePedals]

What happens when you go - Guitar- GT8 (no modeling)- Amp?

Dennis

[kewlpack]

What happens when you go - Guitar- GT8 (no modeling)- Amp?

I haven't tried that yet. I will try that when I get home from work and let you know.

[ProTonePedals]

That should tell you for sure if its the modeling, which it probably is based on what you've described.

Dennis

[kewlpack]

Okay - I did some testing (albeit briefly) last night.

The dynamics loss was present when going into the GT8 whether modeling was on or off. I found that the dynamics loss problem was slightly worse when using the Variax through the GT8 (too much modeling going on?). The Jazzbox was better. I am beginning to think that the Variax is introducing a little latency that is added to whatever the GT8 is doing (am I off track here?)... the GT8 does a good job though.

I then put the GT8 in the loop and only had some effects engaged on it - no amp modeling or compressors or EQ. The Variax was still not as "defined" as my Jazzbox (see sig) - but the dynamics were a lot better.

I dunno... I'm probably just being too picky about this issue. When I play the Jazzbox into the amp there is this "mojo" going on that I can't seem to put my finger on. It's there though. And when I bring the Variax or GT8 into the mix, the mojo ain't so mojo no mo'. Could it be the Variax more than anything else???

I'm all ears... :popcorn

[ProTonePedals]

Sounds like too many 1's and 0's. I'm sure that both are great tools to have. So what it comes down to is- which is worth more- the flexibility of the modeling hardware, or the tone that's being lost?

I say this because I am a convert... I used to love all the digital stuff. The more buttons and menus the better. But then I wanted to get a more rootsy stripped down sound, started building my own pedals, and found that the magic lost wasn't worth the flexibility... so I tossed all the digital stuff. The J Station, the digidelays and reverbs, the ProTools plug ins- all of it. Bought a nice tube amp and havn't looked back.

HOWEVER, I understand that not everyone can design and build all the effects pedals they need- so that flexibility is of the utmost importance.

The modeling stuff is great for bedroom demos, studio sessions where speed is more important than tone, and some live (pop/rock) situations, but IMHO, its just not there yet for a jazz trio or the bite of a power blues band.


Dennis

[reverbbb]

ProTonePedals:

I'm 100% following what you are saying about the digital world. I have owned a couple of Line6 Flextones myself, and I am currently ampless at church with a Line6 Pod Pro.

This digital stuff does take on a different feel and touch to the analog tube world. However, I was playing several songs for kewlpack by Jeff Miller this weekend. Jeff is a phenominal player and a very tallented amature producer. He also builds his own beautiful guitars. Most of them incorporate the guts from the Line6 Variax. Most of his songs on his album are using the "TeleAx" as he likes to call them.

I invite you to listen to the tones that he obtains from this digital modeling guitar. Then, decide if the digital world should be completely written off as noval, but not quite there :angel . I am not sure what amps he is using, but I would wager that they are probably actual tube amps. But the digital guitars are virtually undetectible on his recordings. Mainly because his tallent keeps your mind focused on his playing and not the subtle anomolies of the digital equipment being used.

Try several of Jeff's samples. Better yet, buy his album. You will be happy to find out that there is a place for the digital world. It's a fun trip. Don't miss any unturned stones along the way.

http://www.guitaristjeffmiller.com/audio.htm

[kewlpack]

<cough> well... I just eliminated one digital modeling component in my tone chain... :shock

Reverbbb... man, after playing "IT" last night I just couldn't go back! :roll: :roll:

Jeff Miller was AMAZING... that dude can play... :shock

See my sig now... :innocent :innocent :innocent

[reverbbb]

Man, I should have known that you were in the "mood" last night. The fact that you pointed out that Parker and it was exactly in your price margin . . . well, I just should have known :lol:

I gotta try it out. I remember you talking that guy into buying a Parker at the Guitar Show for several hundred more :cool: . I have loved the Parker thin body concept ever since I found out about them. I have yet to play the bolt-on neck version. Was the one you bought setup like at three pup Strat with a whammy?

[kewlpack]

Here she is... but mine will look slightly different...

http://www.parkerguitars.com/code/models/models_pseries_p38_intro.asp

http://www.parkerguitars.com/images/models/p38_popup.jpg

[ProTonePedals]

I've wanted a Parker for YEARS. ... wow has this thread gotten WAY off topic or what?!?!

Back to the modeling thought- I do believe that there are some great pieces of gear in the modeling realm.
Do I think its a fad- no I do believe its the future. Just as Pro Tools dominates over 2 inch tape.
I'm quite certain that the digital world will kill any hopes I have of passing Pro Tone Pedals on to my son as a business unit, and that's OK with me.
Do I think its there yet, no. Its poised, and there are a few pieces of gear that sound fabulous. But in this scenario, the player of the modeling equipment had audible tone loss. For most of us that is an unacceptable trade off.

[MrMike]

That's for sure. I use modeling (a Vox AD120 head w/Vox 4x12) because I need a bunch of sounds, and I need access to them very quickly for the playing situation I'm in. If I was doing something like a more rock and roll oriented gig, you can bet the farm that I'd be using a bunch of (probably ProTone) pedals in front of a hot and sweaty tube amp.

[refin]

The modeling stuff is great for bedroom demos, studio sessions where speed is more important than tone, and some live (pop/rock) situations, but IMHO, its just not there yet for a jazz trio or the bite of a power blues band.


Dennis

I agree.....last night at rehearsal I pulled out my '56 Pro Amp and ran it through my 1-12" Marshall extension cab and was "re-converted".
I have 2 J-Stations that I use for home recording,because late at night they work best,and if you tweak them they will work in a pinch-----I'm in such a small studio space (3rd bedroom---a glorified closet :lol: ).

For years all I played through was this Pro and a '59 Bassman (which is coming out of mothballs too),and retired them....the value of these pieces and their immediate "spoiling factor" left me with the decision to pull them out for special occasions only.
BTW,Dennis,my wife is from Hurst,which I believe is in your backyard.Maybe on our next trip there we will look you up.Your pedals look and sound great. :cool:

[Crunchyriff]

Bought a nice tube amp and havn't looked back.


Now THAT's what I'm talking about....

[prscustom24]

Sounds like too many 1's and 0's.

Strictly speaking, the problem is probably not enough 1's & 0's. In the a/d and d/a converters.

[ProTonePedals]

You're exactly right!

[prscustom24]

So, I wonder where he is on the hum & noise problem?

[kewlpack]

So, I wonder where he is on the hum & noise problem?
I wrote about that over here...
http://guitaristsprais.forumsplace.com/post-3152.html#3152