Went to a differnt Church last night

[Hooligan]

The fellow that lives behind me plays bass at a Church not too far away. We were talking in the back yard when he invites me to come with him for the Sunday night service. I accept despite there being no children services for my three kids.

I have lead a sheltered church life appearantly. Never heard anyone speak in tongues before.. There was lots of laying on hands and crying. Not sure about the crying just yet, it made me a bit uncomfortable. I get emotional when I think of how inadequate I am as a beleiver, father, and husband. One man was close to passing out. To me it's a celebration a party not a funeral. I really liked the fact that their was genuine concern for the church body. There were lots of prayer requests and a request for folks to fast and pray for a family dealing with a situation. That made me feel disconnected with my church family. The pastor was very passoinate. At several points in his message he got really loud and excited, I'm ok with passion. Now I am just making observation and not passing my own judgement, so don't go off and get mad. It could be that it's me lacking in faith.

We have been members of a Baptist church for a few years. I never realized how conservative our worship is. It even feels canned compared to what I experienced last night. Even if I'm not comfortable with all the crying and fainting I liked the worship with recklessness.

Anyhow, the worship was pretty cool. They even had a horn section. I liked that alot. The worship leader played a chocolate brown strat. He was very good and the congregation responded to him very well. He was completely involved in worship and I really liked that. Even the pastor sang a solo along with a sound track.

Several of the men had just finished a revival weekend. They were taking turns giving testimony, but after about 2 1/2 hours of being in the pews my time was running out with the kids. We left and there was no end in sight for the testimonies............My buddy said we got to go, them guys can talk al night :)

I think I was sent to get a wake up. Perhaps God wants me to smell the coffee and get serious about worship and being more devoted to him. Maye I need to pray more and more from the heart.

[Kitty]

Hey dude, you're quite capable of hearing whatever God is telling you in your heart about all this, but a lot of it sounds like only a difference of style to me.

Just for the record, I'm quite accustomed to tongues, prophecy, healing, etc. in a church service, but the Baptists up the road from me are just as much members of the same Kingdom I am, just as sincere followers of Jesus, and just as much led by our same Father. Our styles differ, that's all.

Another note, I think it's fairly typical that a Sunday evening service is a less formal than a Sunday morning, and if the men just got back from a revival weekend, then they're probably STILL giving testimonies! ;)

All that to say, don't let yourself feel inferior just because someone else has a more flamboyant style than you do, but if you saw something you connected with, go back and check it out! Just ask God for discernment -- people can get carried away with experiences even if the experiences are from God.

Kitty

[Micter]

Dude, that is exactly what you want to be around. A bunch of broken and contrite spirits. God is pouring out his spirit upon all flesh! We are seeing the same thing at our church. People broken! weeping! crying out to God for the lost! I'm encouraged to hear about your experience and hope you embrace it with humility and see it for what it is. A church that has a heart for God. Man! I love this stuff! Do yourself a favor and go back but this time allow God to touch you and let him break you. Weeping before God is OK. Our pride tells us that men don't cry. Hogwash! Let it go!

We are going on a month straight of services. I have missed one day as I had to get some dental work done. Other than that I've played worship every day and trust me there are times that the spirit of God has been so present that I can't even describe it. One day I was touched so deep that I was playing but it wasn't me if you get my drift.

[Teleguy]

Our church doesn't get all emotional. But there is fruit.

Just sayin'.

[MadHatter]

I think you said it right Teleguy....
you gotta see the fruit...
I went to a church like that for years... and I loved the worship... but there was no fruit.

I'm not saying there is no fruit there hooligan...
just that the one I went to didn't have any...
we ended up leaving that church... and we found a church that has fruit. And great worship as well...



but I'm super glad it maybe woke you up a bit... it's always nice to find out there's more for you... that GOD wants to take you one step further...

[Micter]

Our church doesn't get all emotional. But there is fruit.

Just sayin'.

You might (might) be confusing spirituality with emotion. If God's spirit is convicting sin people WILL cry. If God's spirit is healing deep seeded wounds people WILL weep. It's all about surrender and allowing God to have his way in our hearts. I don't say that every church that has people crying is of God but I tell you we had a service on Saturday night about Embracing the cross. Our Pastor set up a large wooden cross and challenged us to come up and symbolically embrace the cross. Not a dry eye in the crowd and trust me there was fruit as many lives were touched and changed forever.

[Hooligan]

I completely understand what you are getting at. I have cried when I felt God dealing with my short comings, my sinful nature etc. I even cried watching the Passion of the Christ, when I came face to face visually with what Jesus endured on my behalf. I have even gotten choked up when my best friend accepted Christ. Heck, I have always thought it would be cool to do "Butterfly Kisses" at a Father's day service. They'd have to find someone else to sing it, no way can I make it all the way through without balling like a school girl.

Please understand I mean no disrespect to my neighbors church. I felt some of the emotion was out of place/ over done. I was freaked out just a bit by two women wailing in a circle of prayer over a family dealing with an issue. I don't know for sure what the issue was but it must have been pretty serious for them two to carry on like they did. I'm not saying this was good or bad, spirit filled or just emotion run wild. I'm just saying it freaked me out pretty good. I enjoyed the rest of the service and was fed quite well with the pastors message.

All that aside, I could feel alot of love in this church. No doubt these folks are chasing the heart of God, No doubt! I would like to take some of that emotion, passion, conviction back to my church. Compared to what I witnessed I think our church focuses on the music too much and not enough on worship........real worship. No way would the band ever get caught up in a song and go off on a spirit filled improv. Not in a million years.

[Micter]

Read Lamentations

[Crunchyriff]

We do not have an emotionless, unfeeling, stoic, or effeminate savior; nor is our Heavenly Father of like mindset and behavior.

Similarly, the Jewish people were encouraged to openly weep, mourn, laugh, dance ( oh good heavens, did he say "dance" ?...) and sing at the appropriate times- and more or less even directed to do so by God Himself in appointing the various feasts & holidays they were commanded to observe. These uhh, "emotional displays" are cathartic, healing and necessary.

Likewise, we see when Jesus laying out the difference between the pharisee and the publican, we hear the passionate cry of the second man, beating on his chest "lord have mercy on me...a sinner!" and Jesus goes on to say that that man was justified more than the former.

I am fully convinced that, while some in the Charismatic/Pentecostal side have their share of abuses that I have witnessed firsthand; the opposite is also just as glaringly true with some on the baptist/methodist/presbyterian etc side of the ring in that there is an abject void of emotion that is somehow justified by the rubber stamped excuse "lack of 'visual excesses' "

Notice I said "some".

IMHO, and by what scripture suggests is "normal": showing emotions (even in a church service or, lord forbid, prayer/intercessory time!) is anything but wrong...if it is from the heart. It is my estimation that we of western culture would do well to loosen up a bit and learn something from our Jewish brothers & sisters.

The biblically recorded account of David bringing back the ark to Jerusalem and dancing before the Lord with all his might with joy- and losing his clothes, should be both an encouragement and a stern warning.

Michal was highly displeased with this "shameful display of emotion"; so much so, that the bible says she despised David in her heart for it. Yet David found favor with God; and God judged Michal and rendered her barren for the rest of her life.

[Micter]

We do not have an emotionless, unfeeling, stoic, or effeminate savior; nor is our Heavenly Father of like mindset and behavior.

Similarly, the Jewish people were encouraged to openly weep, mourn, laugh, dance ( oh good heavens, did he say "dance" ?...) and sing at the appropriate times- and more or less even directed to do so by God Himself in appointing the various feasts & holidays they were commanded to observe. These uhh, "emotional displays" are cathartic, healing and necessary.

Likewise, we see when Jesus laying out the difference between the pharisee and the publican, we hear the passionate cry of the second man, beating on his chest "lord have mercy on me...a sinner!" and Jesus goes on to say that that man was justified more than the former.

I am fully convinced that, while some in the Charismatic/Pentecostal side have their share of abuses that I have witnessed firsthand; the opposite is also just as glaringly true with some on the baptist/methodist/presbyterian etc side of the ring in that there is an abject void of emotion that is somehow justified by the rubber stamped excuse "lack of 'visual excesses' "

Noticed I said "some".

IMHO, and by what scripture suggests is "normal": showing emotions (even in a church service or, lord forbid, prayer/intercessory time!) is anything but wrong...if it is from the heart. It is my estimation that we of western culture would do well to loosen up a bit and learn something from our Jewish brothers & sisters.

The biblically recorded account of David bringing back the ark to Jerusalem and dancing before the Lord with all his might with joy- and losing his clothes, should be both an encouragement and a stern warning.

Michal was highly displeased with this "shameful display of emotion"; so much so, that the bible says she despised David in her heart for it. Yet David found favor with God; and God judged Michal and rendered her barren for the rest of her life.

+1 :cry:

[LesStrat]

It's all good if God is in it.

[Crunchyriff]

It's all good if God is in it.

A-MEN!! :clap:

[hotraman]

+1 :cry:

I can only speak for myself:
Its good to go visit other churches.
Sometimes you need to be "shaken up."
Here's where I have been at lately:
I want more passion for the Lord, and to see other come to know Him.
I want to take "spiritual" risks, and allow God to "break up the fallow ground" in my life.
Our churches should inspire us to live for God, heal the broken, and see the
lost come to know Him. Sound Bible teaching, acts of service, etc into the local community are values I like to see.
In August, our church is holding a "Service Sunday" where we don't meet for gatherings, but just for 20 mins, to send out teams into the city to serve ( clean up trash, visit adult rest homes, etc.) Puts feet to the sermons we hear about serving.

[hotraman]

well said, Randy!

[Teleguy]

You might (might) be confusing spirituality with emotion...


Wait a minute.
That was MY point.

I just didn't want Hooligan to feel confused about what might be missing at his present church.

I too have seen fruit at Pentacostal gatherings, and been involved in that style of church. But it so happens that where we attend now -though not discouraging such displays of fervor and emotion- do not focus on that.

Didn't mean to come off as flip, just wanted to state that it is possible to have fruit and signs whether or not people are comfortable or not with a more emotional response to their experience of The Spirit.

I have known many deeply spiritual pastors and laypersons well used of God who were not particularly demonstrative in their personal style.

Nobody should have to defend their Worship preferences, and if Hooligan feels he's missing something at his home church, then he SHOULD seek out other avenues. But if he feels uncomfortable about some aspects of what he experienced at the alternate church, he should consider both sides.

He may be being moved out of his comfort zone by the Holy Spirit, or he might be being distracted away from where God had placed him by "newness" of the experience.

Just sayin'...

From his later post it appears Hooligan has the right attitude anyway.

So, enough from ME!:)

[Tech Player]

Thank you Hooligan for this post, everyone who has contributed - I can't reflect it all back with commentary; and Teleguy above for talking about comfort zones.

I'm not comfortable as a rock 'n roller (say what? I've already toned it down to folksy music in an effort to mature and conform) in my ultra-conservative Church. I've been to 50 years of Churches, and what can I say? God was present here, and it suited my family, and THEY made friends. I'm the outcast in worn-out jeans, sandals, and I once wore a T-shirt, to everyone's horror and dismay. I usually forget to stick my earring in, but what if it was a cross? Probably an abomination.

I was fortunate, I mean it, to be in attendance on the day when the speaker preached actively against rock 'n roll bands, using guitars and drums for worship, and "agitated singing". Nevermind that those churches are the most popular around, and draw thousands!

We have a small piano and sing hymns that are 200 years old. Delete this if necessary, but people worship like corpses. I've already left the church, except for the occasional visit.

On that fateful day, the speaker said that we needed a necktie to stand before the Lord, and that the women's hair must be covered with a handkerchief, but only if the woman had a
Christian "conscience".

Personally, I didn't remember that being in the Bible. I only remembered "Make a joyful noise unto the Lord".

I am looking for a new Church, and have been entrusted as steward of a very special, one-of-a-kind handmade Les Paul Supreme Prototype. It is chambered, light and lovely. When I find the right Church or person to use it, and see that there is an anointed Pastor who plays & leads, or a faithful serving Worship Leader, the Paul goes to that person, for the Lord's work. If I am called to serve and lead, I have just bought a new SG for that purpose and am ready to use it NOW (except for poor health which is another issue). Of course it's not WHAT you play, if you're a player, but HOW you use it. I'm so used to being made feel guilty for owning a pair of PRS' that I can't use them, and nevermind that my wife tithes up to 50 percent now (to compensate for a worldly husband.... no she gives as she is led, PLUS where there is need). I've been made to feel if I bring out anything more expensive than a Strat, at OTHER Churches, that I am serving the Devil, and should be giving more. We are not to show that we have any excess; my family agrees. Actually, I gave my guitars away, except for a versatile bunch. And I am only part-time to no-time with my family, with changes occurring in this past month. Style-of-Christianity was a major part of our argument.

[Crunchyriff]

Legalism knows no bounds and has a mean & voracious appetite; and those guilt-trips are from the pit of hell.

Put it this way: WE are the ignoble- made fit for service by the blood of the lamb and by the word of our testimony as we walk in and BY faith daily. We were and are filthy rags- treasonous souls, without repentance at the cross...and it doesn't matter whether that treasonous soul comes equipped with a bag full of money, or empty pockets.

AS far as guilt for fine things in God's house- that's rubbish. Solomon outfitted the the temple with only the finest things he could muster.

IF we can't use the finest for worshiping the King of the Universe- then I don't know what God gave those fine things for.

Use your best and be not afraid, nor apologetic. If it's a strat- great. If it's a Teisco and that's all you can afford, fine. Use it. If you have a PRS (or 2 or 3), by all means, use that thing.

You don't see any whining about worship leaders and their $3-$4k Taylors...

Let's see: you are encouraged to wear your finest in God's house, but use mediocre tools in serving there. Uh-huh. Flipping hypocrites.

Some folks within the body are absolutely BLIND guides, just as there were in Jesus' days.

The bottom line is, those folks are laying on a guilt trip so they can have MORE of your $$ in their coffers. THAT'S the bottom line. Hell's appetite is never satisfied.

[Teleguy]

Thanks for sharing, Tech Player.

I can relate to a lot of your post. Something about American lifestyles and consumerism perhaps should make us all feel uncomfortable in our quest for "the holy grail" as an idealized guitar!
Reminds me of designer "pre-stressed" blue jeans!

I wonder how many parishoners -with too much time on their hands- would know (outside this forum) that a Custom Shop Relic Nocaster -looking its shaby best- is about as expensive as a pretty nice Les Paul?

I'm all for not causing my brother to stumble if his faith is weak about such things, but I was personally torqued when the guitar I grew up with (a Gibson J-45) was referred to in church by a well-meaning Christian lady (in furs) as a "devil's" instrument: because it had a reddish sunburst finish!

Having served on a few elders and deacons boards, I know criticism can get MUCH worse than that when it comes to church politics. Gak!:surrender:

I will admit there are times when I'm conscious about not playing too fancy a guitar at a poor church, but mostly because my own eye has a log in it when I look up and see a guy playing a very expensive guitar (especially if they can't really play)!
I could show improvement as well were my comfort zone less judgmental about church dragon ladies, as well.:pray:

[Micter]

I left my last church because of legalism. I was told that I couldn't wear shorts and flip flops (sandals) to church. If I didn't come in a suit and tie I wasn't giving God my best. I thought to myself "God looks at the heart" but bit my lip and just never came back. I had a friend of mine get kicked out of one church we attended for wearing a baseball cap.

Legalism is evil!

The church I currently attend is very easy going. My Pastor will preach in jeans, t-shirt, baseball hat, and flip flops.They are very strict about sin on the worship platform though. I think the balance is pretty good.

Oh, I play all my guitars at church. They rotate in and out of the line up but I have no problem using the tools that God has blessed me with for honoring and praising him.

[Crunchyriff]

In all this- tears or no tears; excitement or quiet, pensive adoration; cheap guitars or expensive; Armani Suits or Jeans & T-shirts.... none of this matters. These are all outward signs & things.

It is so easy to misjudge/appraise by what we see on the outside. We've all done it.

What matters is:

a. what kind of environment the church staff is promoting/facilitating in a given church

b. the condition of each and every heart that walks into the sanctuary.

c. the condition of those hearts when they leave

The staff of a church should be promoting an open, friendly, warm, safe environment. A place of refuge, a place for forgiveness, restoration; a place for answers. A place for genuine fellowship.

The condition of one's heart can truly only be known by God. But for the brokenhearted, the outcast, the poor, the downtrodden, the publican as it were- these 'souls of men' must find solace, hope, etc... and though an over-the top freak show is not the answer- neither is an environment that is likened to a funeral service and/or replete those self-appointed church police who scowl and cry 'evil' over the color of a guitar for crying out loud... or worse...somebody not being allowed to come into the sanctuary because of jeans & t-shirts.

The only form of dress-code I've found in scripture is where God says "rend your hearts, and not your garments..."

[Hooligan]

What a great thread this is turned into. Legalism drives me crazy. I just can't get over how people are blind to words in black and white right there in the Bible and go off and do things on thier own......

Jesus did not have neck ties and wore sandals, nor did he speak the Queen's English for all you KJV fanatics ( I once had a guy tell anything other than the KJV is a lie ). Heck if our images of what Christ looks like are even close to accurate he may have had hair down to his shoulders, ya'll know I hate long hair........:) Who gives a rip what you wear to church as long as you are there. I just dont get it.

[Crunchyriff]

Oh don't get me started about the 'KJV only' crowd, or I'll grow my hair long again just for YOU, hooligan! :D

Let's just take one example of how the KJV is in error (or 'flawed'):

Psalms 8:5(KJV) "For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour."

The first half of that verse was INTENTIONALLY translated incorrectly, as to translate verbatim was considered bordering on heresy.
"for thou hast made man a little lower than God..." is the proper translation.

So much for the "100% infallible KJV". I love the KJV... a great, 16th-century translation. We don't live in that century anymore, & don't speak that way today that's all; and there are better translations today. (as well as some not so good ones)

[Teleguy]

Personally, I'm waiting for the Mad Magazine version of the Bible: hopefully illustrated by Don Martin.

[Kitty]

I like the Hello Kitty version. ;)

[Teleguy]

:clap::clap::clap:

roflroflroflroflrofl

[Crunchyriff]

I love it....

[Micter]

Translations? I absolutely read KJV and NKJV for the most part but some of the new translations are great. The Message, God's Word (yes it's a translation) and the New Living Bible are all fantastic. The NIV is probably my least favorite.

[Crunchyriff]

I'm getting into the ESV as of late and am shopping for the right copy for myself right now. We've quite few translations around here- the usual suspects (KJV, NIV, Living Bible, The Message, New Jerusalem Bible and a few others that are still boxed-up from our December move); that said, I've been pretty drawn to the ESV for some reason, and, all things being equal- among the latest other translations, what I'm finding is the ESV seems to be the most scripturally accurate overall from cover to cover as lifted directly from the Greek and Hebrew texts.

The Message, IMHO, is a real mixed bag. Some of its contents I absolutely love, and it's sterling in impact; but some of it really rubs me the wrong way as the modern euphemisms & jargon used throughout sometimes detracts (IMHO) from the power and beauty of what was originally said... & a bit watered-down at times.

Usually, I'll use "The Message" in my cross-referencing more than for prayerful study & meditation; though the Lord has certainly used it a few times to minster to me personally. For me, 'The Message' is a tool, but not a primary one. YMMV.

[Micter]

I'm getting into the ESV as of late and am shopping for the right copy for myself right now. We've quite few translations around here- the usual suspects (KJV, NIV, Living Bible, The Message, New Jerusalem Bible and a few others that are still boxed-up from our December move); that said, I've been pretty drawn to the ESV for some reason, and, all things being equal- among the latest other translations, what I'm finding is the ESV seems to be the most scripturally accurate overall from cover to cover as lifted directly from the Greek and Hebrew texts.

The Message, IMHO, is a real mixed bag. Some of its contents I absolutely love, and it's sterling in impact; but some of it really rubs me the wrong way as the modern euphemisms & jargon used throughout sometimes detracts (IMHO) from the power and beauty of what was originally said... & a bit watered-down at times.

Usually, I'll use "The Message" in my cross-referencing more than for prayerful study & meditation; though the Lord has certainly used it a few times to minster to me personally. For me, 'The Message' is a tool, but not a primary one. YMMV.

I agree that the message isn't the best translation but I do use it as a crossreference as you do. It has some really good nuggets though. Worth looking at when studying. I wouldn't use it as my main bible either.

[Teleguy]

The Message I find great for a refreshing take on daily reads, but I agree it's disturbing when some favorite passages seem butchered. Makes me suspect that sometimes the bottomless depth of some concepts gets lost.

On various days the Scriptures speak to me in different ways. Somehow with The Message, the Holy Spirit or my perceptions seem limited to a single slant.

I think I've noticed it most when looking for redemption symbols in the OT.


I sometimes still give it to people as a first Bible. Especially if they're weirded out about about older language uses.

Unfortunately, some of the supernatural occurences sometimes seem a bit watered down or ambivalent in The Message.

[bobbymc]

......Jesus did not have neck ties and wore sandals........

Guys, please forgive the hijack here. But everytime I read this part of Hooligan's comments, I kept remembering the old joke about the kid who wanted his dad to buy him a car. The dad wouldn't do it. He said, "If you'll cut your hair and dress nicer, I'll think about it." The son said, "Well, Dad, Jesus had long hair and wore sandals." The Dad said, "Yes, and he walked everywhere he went, too!!" rofl

My apologies. Back to regularly scheduled programming.

And by the way, this is an excellent thread. I'd like to print it off and carry it around with me to show those church folk who get all high and mighty in their own minds!

[LesStrat]

Balance, folks, balance.

You can be just as legalistic about NOT wearing dress clothes.

[Crunchyriff]

Hey if somebody wants to show up dressed to the nines, so be it. If not, so be it.

[Strat-tastic]

I don't mind sandals, as long as they're not worn with socks....


:wasntme: :)

[Micter]

I don't mind sandals, as long as they're not worn with socks....


:wasntme: :)
roflroflrofl

[danster]

Hi everyone...I'm Dan. First post and a great thread!!!
I play Bass and Guitar. Right now not playing since we just joined a new church after 10 years at the previous one.

Our last Pastor(s) had told me that our giving wasn't enough so, I couldn't play on the worship team...(no pay-no play) so, among other reasons such as no financial disclosure, Pastors wife taking over all church ministries and a control freak soundman - :hmm:

We stayed another 10 months and prayed and realized...what in the world are we doing here?:dunno:

Abuse comes to mind alongside legalism. Manipulation and arrogance also seem to be a factor. Not sure why or how all this happened - :cry:

But, our new church is quite the opposite and I feel refreshed...:yeah::yeah:

Very nice to meet you all!!! Lord bless
DAN

[mattd]

wow...i've never even heard of a pastor that looks at who gives what before. my pastor now emphasizes that he never looks at individual finances. who are they to really "grade" what you give anyways? they don't know your salary and therefore don't know the total % you give.

[Hooligan]

Our last Pastor(s) had told me that our giving wasn't enough so, I couldn't play on the worship team...(no pay-no play) so, among other reasons such as no financial disclosure, Pastors wife taking over all church ministries and a control freak soundman - :hmm:


Stories like this really make me appreciate my Labrador........rofl

[danster]

Concerning Pastors questioning your giving :

It seems to be pervasive in independent/Charismatic type churches. -No accountability...

When I was asked why our giving was so low, I thought "Well, you don't tell us what you make" - No disclosures to members - so, they had quite the nerve!!!

Anyway, our new church is vibrant and doesn't have the same type of arrogance coming from the leadership...

Ya know, I sometimes think some Pastors are like politicians - out of touch with their congregation and self-absorbed with churchianity.

[Crunchyriff]

so much for the manipulative "shepherd" mindset. What an abomimation and gross abuse... sick. I hate those stories. But unfortunately, some of those are very real.

[rev411]

Hey Hooligan, I grew up baptist, went to church with the folks, nice church but didn't do anthing for me. Took the long road, worked on my testimony, then got saved at the age of 20. Went back to the church and still didn;t do anything for me.
Now I go to church like what you described, play on the worship team, sometimes lead, and have the freedom to write my own songs and play them in church( a few services I have done all original stuff).
YOU have to go where YOU get fed spiritually. God will take you places or show you things, not really to move you physicaly, but maybe spiritually. He may even be planting seeds in you to move through your praise team, to then get the congregation ready for something that may happen through music.
Wouldn't it be great if we didn't have to tell people"OK everyone let's praise Jesus" at the start of service. Instead they came through the doors eagerly wanting to worship with the body corporatley(sp?), that they started before the band?
Personally I cannot stand the thought of the body of CHRIST being separated by denominations. Jesus said" I am the way", nuff said.
Follow the red words dude, hasn't failed me in 14 yrs!

ps sorry for the long post, I just built a soapbox.:yeah:
Myke

[stephen]

Hi everyone...I'm Dan. First post and a great thread!!!
I play Bass and Guitar. Right now not playing since we just joined a new church after 10 years at the previous one.

Our last Pastor(s) had told me that our giving wasn't enough so, I couldn't play on the worship team...(no pay-no play) so, among other reasons such as no financial disclosure, Pastors wife taking over all church ministries and a control freak soundman - :hmm:

We stayed another 10 months and prayed and realized...what in the world are we doing here?:dunno:

Abuse comes to mind alongside legalism. Manipulation and arrogance also seem to be a factor. Not sure why or how all this happened - :cry:

But, our new church is quite the opposite and I feel refreshed...:yeah::yeah:

Very nice to meet you all!!! Lord bless
DAN

I forgot about this thread.

And Danster, a belated welcome to the GPAWF!!!

I had somewhat the same experience as you at a church (looking a little too closely at the finances of members, wife taking control......). I didnt wait around ten months though: I knew that wasnt of God, and I was outta there!

When I was confronted as to why I was not tithing, and they had no records of gifting by me or my family, I told them that I put the money in the envelope, and thats it. I dont put my name, and I dont earmark where its gonna go. My giving is between me and God, not me and the church bean counters.

They didnt like that answer. I didnt like the direction the church was moving in, and left. That church is gone now, but I'm still serving the Lord, and still tithing/giving the same way.

[LesStrat]

Interesting approach, brutha. I like it. Then again, I don't mind using the tax deduction, either.

OTOH, we started making use of our church's new e-giving process a few months ago. We used to have trouble remembering to get our tithe check to the ushers prior to church, and would miss the offering because of our service on the worship team. Now, I transfer the funds electronically on payday.

[Micter]

Interesting approach, brutha. I like it. Then again, I don't mind using the tax deduction, either.

OTOH, we started making use of our church's new e-giving process a few months ago. We used to have trouble remembering to get our tithe check to the ushers prior to church, and would miss the offering because of our service on the worship team. Now, I transfer the funds electronically on payday.
I just flag down the head usher! :smart: while they are passing the baskets.