My Dad’s Bigger Than Your Dad and Other Lies

[Pearly Gator]

Martha must have been a guitarist. She was always busy, running around doing stuff. Then, there's her sister Mary sitting at Jesus' feet. I think I'm a Martha.

Searching for reasons why musicians leave the church, (don't ask) I looked up Leslie Phillips, Sam Cook and other similar stories. Holy Spirit led me to My Dad’s Bigger Than Your Dad and Other Lies (http://www.mydaddylovesme.org/music8.html) Reading it struck home.

Anyway, it looks like a good read for any musician and I want to share it with y'all. Let me know what you think of it. :angel

The Gator

[Wally]

Well, I think the Lord is having some of us do some examining of our calling as Christians and musicians.... at least having us put some deeper thought into worship and our role in it. I say that because the "are you serving" thread really got me to thinking, and I started a couple of new threads based on that. Now this article is related to several of the things we have been discussing - I even posted a link to a story about Dylan earlier today.

Now as to the article - I think he makes some good points and does a good job of describing some of the problems that plague church life (none are new, btw - remember that the Disciples were jockeying for position when Christ was on earth). At the end, however, I was left with the impression that he left the church because he couldn't call the shots... so he may have validated his own point.

[seagullplayer]

Thanks for the link. I read the story and checked out his home page, and read a few more things he wrote.
He has some interesting ideas. I have to agree with the idea of "new music" in the Church. And I am all for using songs the Lord has given someone in your own Church. But he seems to be pretty - and not much + on just about everything. He does seem to really like his own stuff though...

As far as if he really told us anything about why these people left the Church, he writes:

"This is my opinion, since I've not spoken to any of them, and only read Dion's thoughts at his wed-site."

[seagullplayer]

Now as to the article - I think he makes some good points and does a good job of describing some of the problems that plague church life (none are new, btw - remember that the Disciples were jockeying for position when Christ was on earth). At the end, however, I was left with the impression that he left the church because he couldn't call the shots... so he may have validated his own point.

What Wally said too. :-)

[Wally]

Some additional thoughts...

A lot of the problems mentioned in the article... and many that we discuss here, for that matter, could be solved with two things:

The first is planning; for example, in the article he mentions the reception that he got at the church where he was to be the guest speaker. There is no excuse for their behavior, but at the same time there is a real good chance they dodn't know he was coming. The pastor may have found out that morning. There is no substitute for planning, coordination and communication :idea: I had a similar situation once - our small praise team was scheduled to play at another service. One of the members met a hot shot piano player and invited him to play with us (without telling any of the rest of us), so we found out he was playing with us an hour before the service started. Fortunately we were able to practice during that hour, but the "guest" ended up telling us we were playing the songs wrong (cause it wasn't the way he was used to playing them). It left a bad taste in my mouth... :banghead I'm generally against last minute changes because all they do is upset people and cause disorder - disorder that will be all too noticeable to those gathered for worship. I think the Holy Spirit can direct changes at the last minute, but I also think that the Holy Spirit would not cause disorder, so last minute changes only work when you have a tight group that has a lot of songs memorized and is able to function easily within change....

The second is a genuine concern for others feelings and desire to contribute, and making a concerted effort to allow people to use their talents, within reason. The article makes some good points about people in authority positions being "territorial". Too often the focus is on everything being perfect, with the end result being hurt feelings and peoples talents and desire to contribute being overlooked. This is a very tough job for the church leaders and pastor, as there are some folks who just want to take over everything. I don't know how to handle them - you know the type - if you allow them to voice a prayer request the end up delivering a 30 minute sermon....

[ptrallan01]

is the way that he handled the group of musicians who took "his" music somewhere it had never been before or since. His attitude seemed to lack something to me but perhaps its just my sensitivity at being mediocre.

Peter

[Pearly Gator]

The second is a genuine concern for others feelings and desire to contribute, and making a concerted effort to allow people to use their talents, within reason. The article makes some good points about people in authority positions being "territorial". Too often the focus is on everything being perfect, with the end result being hurt feelings and peoples talents and desire to contribute being overlooked. This is a very tough job for the church leaders and pastor, as there are some folks who just want to take over everything. I don't know how to handle them - you know the type - if you allow them to voice a prayer request the end up delivering a 30 minute sermon....

That pretty much sums up my thoughts. At what point should we be allowed to contribute something. Not take over everything, just bring an offering to the altar once in a while. In the past, some churches have driven off musicians. Is a worship pastor's primary job to to make a good worship service? What about building up the flock of musicians under his leadership? I don't know if I'm struggling with jealousy on my part or territorialism in the ministry. :dunno

PG

[Wally]

is the way that he handled the group of musicians who took "his" music somewhere it had never been before or since. His attitude seemed to lack something to me but perhaps its just my sensitivity at being mediocre.

Peter

I share your sensitivity :hissyfit :mrgreen: That was one of the things that struck me - he shouldn't have expected them to be able to play with him without practice....

I read some of his other articles; I still contend that he makes some valid points, but there is a bitterenss to his writing. He is carrying a grudge about something (or some things) that have happened to him and seems to be using his "newsletters" in part to justify his feelings.

[ptrallan01]

First lets address how to make musicians feel welcome.

1 We all are at various levels of knowledge and experience and bring to the table strengths and weakness. Admit them. A good worship leader will recognize this and give each person a song or some songs to work on and get up to speed. Good Christians will accept the truth about OUR condition and be glad to get insight on where we can improve and then act upon it.

2 Give the leaders a break they have the same foibles as everyone else and God did not remove them, their shortcomings, to make them leaders but uses them anyway JUST LIKE THEY ARE! This is called GRACE or God's Rewards At Christ's Expense. We received it that we might give it and too often we forget to give it to the "mature" believers somehow expecting them to be perfect.

3 Remember that not everyone who says Lord Lord is saved!!!! When famous people make a profession of faith we take it as a confession also. The difference is one, profession, may or may not be lasting. The other, confession, is about being changed!!! Remember what Jesus said about the different types of soil. We take it harder when a star walks away than when an unknown person walks away in violation of James' clear teaching about not honoring the rich above the poor.

4 Have plenty of praise jams just for your musicians so that they can get to know each others style and worship and play together without an audience. It has been one of the great bonding forces for our musicians here. We get together maybe once a month not for rehearsal but for the love of music. Keeps it fresh, gets rid of the work aspect and allows us to step out and get loose without worrying that someone will be offended. If we want to get funky, bluesy, or play chamber music or somehow mix it all together we do and just enjoy what each other are doing.

5 Spend time together while not on your instruments. Every couple of months grab a bite to eat and find out what's going on in each other's lives. Music is a ministry and its ministers should know each other in an intimate, albeit not a biblical sense :lol:

Just some non musical thoughts about making it work for a guitarist or a band or any organization within the body.

Peter

[Wally]

Good advice Peter! I have been blessed to be in that type of situation (playing with friends that I know as more than just "praise team members") for most of the years that I have been playing guitar in church. We only have one singer right now and I am married to her, so we spend a lot of time together.... :mrgreen: :biggrin: One of the problems caused by having a mix of church employees and volunteers playing music is that it could make the kind of get togethers you suggest difficult , as the "paid musicians" may expect to be paid for their services... I suspect there are a lot of churches with this situation. The other half of our band is a paid pianist (fortunately we are friends as well so no problems).

[Wally]

I wanted to address one of the points that David Benrexi makes in the linked article and other articles on his web site - the admonition to "sing a new song to the Lord". While I agree that churches should be using new songs written by members of their church (when they have members with the talent), this guy makes it sound like there should be completely new songs every time the church doors open.... he practically makes it a sin for congregations to sing "old" songs. I can't make his opinions sync with the scripture references. Some of the "old songs" continue to get sang because they are so good no one ever gets tired of them... and some of course, are sang too often. :mrgreen:

I do agree with the notion that large publishing houses, whose primary goal is turning a profit, should not neccesarily be the primary source of new music for the church.

[seagullplayer]

[quote="Wally"]I wanted to address one of the points that David Benrexi makes in the linked article and other articles on his web site - the admonition to "sing a new song to the Lord". While I agree that churches should be using new songs written by members of their church (when they have members with the talent), this guy makes it sound like there should be completely new songs every time the church doors open.... he practically makes it a sin for congregations to sing "old" songs. I can't make his opinions sync with the scripture references. Some of the "old songs" continue to get sang because they are so good no one ever gets tired of them... and some of course, are sang too often. :mrgreen:


In one of the other stories he tells of going to a new Church to lead Praise and Worship, he planned to use 7 new songs he had written. And teach them to the congregation at one time. He was upset that the Pastor had a problem with that. The Pastor allowed him to use two he had written and the rest songs the people already knew. I think that is more than fair, if I where in that Pastor's shoes I'm afraid I would have acted much the same.
You can't ask people to learn that many new songs in one Service, and then have a Message?

[Ravindave_3600]

The article makes some good points about people in authority positions being "territorial". Too often the focus is on everything being perfect, with the end result being hurt feelings and peoples talents and desire to contribute being overlooked. ..

Amen to that. One of the low points of my ministry was chewing out a 13-year old kid who really wanted to help and was in WAY over his head. What I thought was "letting me down" was really just a reflection of my doing a poor job of delegating. It took a chewing out (well, a respectful POINTING out) from a 16-year old for me to see my error...and apologize to both of them.

If I can't be perfect, let me at least be godly.
And if I can't be godly, why bother being perfect?