has anyone read the apocryphal books?

[mattd]

any insight on them? did you like them? just curious as to what your viewpoints are on it.

[SAguitar]

I read a few parts of them years ago, and don't remember much. I saw a special on them on the History Channel a few weeks ago, but you know how badly those are slanted.

I would also be interested in some learned insight on these writings.

[mattd]

i've got a Bible with the apocrypha, and it's got some study notes in there too. the only problem is finding time to read them.

[hotraman]

I, too have read parts of them.
There's been some great cable series on the History channel about them.
Are you are referring to the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Mary?

[mattd]

not really, although i have read parts of them as part of research for a paper i did. what i'm specifically asking about are the apocrypha included in the catholic Bible, the ones that are in the old testament. several names off the top of my head: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th maccabees, bel and the dragon, Tobit, judith....there's about 10 more that are in there.

[Crunchyriff]

Mattd- I do NOT have the Catholic bible, but do have one version with these books in there- I'm not sure it they're all there, but quite a few are. Right now they are all in storage from moving.

These books deemed "non-canonical" and this subject matter I've wanted to dig into for quite some time.

I've glanced through a few of them. Interesting reading for sure. When you consider these were ommitted by the council that King James appointed to assemble a new bible (re: for protestants hehehe) It's hard not to approach these text without a degree of intrinsic bias against them by default- that is, unless you were raised Catholic. You also have to wonder how much man's agenda played into what we have left today of the Holy Scriptures. Some, quite factually, were discarded/omitted based on lack of popularity/familiarity amongst those on the panel; that is, if everybody pretty much were familiar with a given text or book, they'd instantly be given more of a positive nod & usually won-out to be included in the new 16th century compilation of scripture.

Those texts that were more obscure, unpopular or unfamiliar among the greater number of the panel, were instantly held in suspicion, and usually were dumped outside of "canon". Then you have specifics- namely the Gospel of Mary. Now I don't know the text well, but you just KNOW there was a two-fold agenda in omitting this particular book.

1. A pointed slap in defiance (rightly so) of the Catholic 'deity' labeling of Mary (if we are talking about this 'Mary' being the mother of Jesus...see I'm not that familiar with the text)

2. A snub against anything written by a woman. Both Roman & old Jewish culture severely demeaned the role/importance of women- both to not much more than a mere "property possession"... as I understand it, the Jews were bad enough, but the Romans were worse about degrading women; hence Paul's attitude about women "speaking in church"- a scripture that I believe has been wrongly misused and manipulated by men... not to mention that he wasn't talking about females teaching in church; he was talking about spouses chattering back & forth- as the women & men had separate seating in the synagogue. The fact that Jesus had many women involved closely in his ministry, and you have various references to 'prophetesses' and other active female saints in the NT, flies in the face of this mindset of men. It's obvious the Lord didn't share this mindset, but I digress. I find it interesting that the OT has two books titled of women (Esther, Ruth); the NT outside of the Catholic Church does not have any.

There HAD to have been some 'agendas' there amongst the honest effort to bring this book to fruition... mere men, under a king's authority, with a king's wishes to execute. If anything, I believe the apocryphal books have immense historical value- and some seem to be less "sanitized" and true to real life if you will. More 3-dimensional, warts and all. It is my opinion that the holy scriptures, have been somewhat sanitized or at least essentialized in how they were originally penned- by saying that I mean- though they contain the unadulterated truth of the Gospel, they could and do make you think of these people as "superhuman", something you and I could never be ...maybe not intentionally, but this textural airbrushing (omitting certain details) that we have is the perfect canvas for our own minds to paint this distorted view of things... "oh God could never use ME, etc". The bottom line is, the Holy Spirit empowered these normal, every-day people to "superhuman", off-the-hook exploits. IN some respect it's all a matter of perception, not unlike your idea of who somebody famous is, based one what you hear, read or see about them..and then you finally meet the person and learn more, for better or for worse.

We aren't given a reality show 24hr chunk of a packaged glimpse into a day in the life of Abraham, for example. We don't hear the kibitzing back & forth between Sarai and Abram. We don't see the expressions when it is announced that they are leaving to "go somewhere"... we don't hear the minute by minute dialog, the grappling, the reasoning, and all those other things that come with our humanity. Just how Do you think Sarai treated Abram after being released from Pharaoh? CAN you say DOGHOUSE? We don't hear the details of that journey, we get the big picture, with a few detailed scenes included. Again, I digress.
I must say though, that I find it highly amazing that according to Jewish history & tradition, Abraham was born "1948 years from creation" (@1813 BC), and the modern nation of Israel declared its independence in 1948 AD.

Whether or not the Holy Spirit is in/birthed these other texts is another matter, and IIRC, according to King James, was the most important qualifier to be included.

Many of you here can speak with much more authority in these matters than I- I'd love to hear your perspectives.

In all this- It's a miracle we have a bible at all today.

[davesg]

This is the only aphocryphal book I have read. I was told that I might be interested in this book. I found it to be a powerful prayer. It could easily fit into the New Testament. Though I do not consider it scripture, it is certainly an ancient Jewish document. It is not considered to be written by Manasseh, but that does not matter. After reading this prayer, I felt that I should read it in one of the worship services, in the prison, one morning. I explained to them that I was going to read a prayer written by someone else, that had moved me. By the time I was done reading it there were men crying and falling on their face to the floor. God can use anything He wants to reach people, He even used a female donkey at one time. And on this day He used this prayer to touch the lives of several men. Please take the time to read this, I am curious to hear your input.



THE PRAYER OF MANASSEH

Chapter 1

1 O Lord, Almighty God of our fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and of their righteous seed; 2 who hast made heaven and earth, with all the ornament thereof; 3 who hast bound the sea by the word of thy commandment; who hast shut up the deep, and sealed it by thy terrible and glorious name; 4 whom all men fear, and tremble before thy power; 5 for the majesty of thy glory cannot be borne, and thine angry threatening toward sinners is importable: 6 but thy merciful promise is unmeasurable and unsearchable; 7 for thou art the most high Lord, of great compassion, longsuffering, very merciful, and repentest of the evils of men. Thou, O Lord, according to thy great goodness hast promised repentance and forgiveness to them that have sinned against thee: and of thine infinite mercies hast appointed repentance unto sinners, that they may be saved. 8 Thou therefore, O Lord, that art the God of the just, hast not appointed repentance to the just, as to Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, which have not sinned against thee; but thou hast appointed repentance unto me that am a sinner: 9 for I have sinned above the number of the sands of the sea. My transgressions, O Lord, are multiplied: my transgressions are multiplied, and I am not worthy to behold and see the height of heaven for the multitude of mine iniquities. 10 I am bowed down with many iron bands, that I cannot life up mine head, neither have any release: for I have provoked thy wrath, and done evil before thee: I did not thy will, neither kept I thy commandments: I have set up abominations, and have multiplied offences. 11 Now therefore I bow the knee of mine heart, beseeching thee of grace. 12 I have sinned, O Lord, I have sinned, and I acknowledge mine iniquities: 13 wherefore, I humbly beseech thee, forgive me, O Lord, forgive me, and destroy me not with mine iniquites. Be not angry with me for ever, by reserving evil for me; neither condemn me to the lower parts of the earth. For thou art the God, even the God of them that repent; 14 and in me thou wilt shew all thy goodness: for thou wilt save me, that am unworthy, according to thy great mercy. 15 Therefore I will praise thee for ever all the days of my life: for all the powers of the heavens do praise thee, and thine is the glory for ever and ever. Amen.

[SAguitar]

Dave, that is as beautiful a prayer as I have ever read. It certainly is correct in all its scriptural statements, pleas, and descriptions. It touched me, convicted me, and lifted up the one true God. May He be praised!

Thanks,
Stan

[Crunchyriff]

That is a prayer that deserves multiple readings to let it really sink-in, and set our hearts right before God. WOW.

WOW.

Thanks for posting that.