Thoughts from reading "the master plan of evangelism"

[mattd]

As i mentioned in my thread I'm currently reading "the master plan of evangelism and discipleship" by Robert Coleman. and reading through it it started to mirror a couple of my thoughts.

if you've read some of my posts before you may or may not not know that I feel a calling to youth ministry, and also am opposed to going to seminary. what this book did to outline my thoughts was to go through the ways that Jesus had trained his disciples. First of all, they were just kept close to him, some closer than others, but all paid attention to his teaching. he wanted them to ask questions and understand what he said. He never sent them out of their own to preach until they were with him constantly for about a year.
As he sent them out he instructed them to come back and report to him what had been said to them. this provides that accountability we need, to make sure that we are going about things in the right way. as a side note, none of them were ever alone, he sent them in groups of twos, but that's another topic.


the bottom line is this, he trained them personally, spent time with them, answered questions, provided accountability, rebuked and corrected them when they were wrong... do you see all this in our training of pastors today? it seems that the only requirement most churches look for these days is a seminary degree. but that doesn't really give you that personal teacher/mentor that provides everything that Jesus was to his disciples. I feel strongly that the most important thing, more important than a degree, is to just learn and serve under a pastor as an intern or whatever title you want to give it. that's the opportunity i got and as a result of doing that for a year, one, i feel that getting that experience was enough to get me started on my own. and two, more importantly, I found that mentor that i can always go to with my questions, to tell my stories of ministry and count on him to tell me when I'm wrong. in my opinion this is an area that we lack in today's training of pastors.


just my :2cents:

[Brian]

I'll add my :2cents:

I recall we had a similar discussion about this awhile back. Paul spent 3 years in seclusion after his personal encounter with Jesus on the Damascus road preparing for his ministry to the Gentiles, after what was likely a lifetime of study to become in his words, "a Pharisee's Pharisee". Guess he needed that training to be able to confront and hopefully convert former colleagues, and gentiles who thought the mystery of Christ was foolishness (sound like anyone you know?).

Our denomination places a great emphasis on several levels of ongoing leadership training, including a four year night-school course of study. I humbly recommend you embrace all of the formal and informal training you can receive to serve the Lord.

[Ravindave_3600]

I couldn't agree more with Brian. Personal discipleship and mentoring is incredibly important. So is formal training. Get as many tools in your toolbox as you can; you'll need them all.

[hotraman]

Adding to this as well, its a core value for me as well.
We need to take time to invest in the lives of others, especially in a one-one situation> life skills, bible study, even worship leading can be talked about. I mentor several folks, some don't even attend my church anymore.

[Kitty]

Get as many tools in your toolbox as you can; you'll need them all.
__________________
You can keep your horses, you can keep your guns
I got a Name I can trust and I'm walking out into the sun
~ Psalm 20 ~


The juxtaposition of these two sentiments in the same post strikes me as decidedly ironic, especially concerning the topic at hand.

Matt, if you are being led by the Lord in a direction that makes no sense according to man's wisdom, then count yourself among good company in the faith, and step out into the sun. The tricky part will be in discerning if that's what it really is, or if it's just impatience or arrogance. Only those close to you, with whom you pray and cry, will be able to help you see the answer to that. No one here on the board will be able to contribute much in that way.

Kitty

[Ravindave_3600]

Get as many tools in your toolbox as you can; you'll need them all.
__________________
You can keep your horses, you can keep your guns
I got a Name I can trust and I'm walking out into the sun
~ Psalm 20 ~


The juxtaposition of these two sentiments in the same post strikes me as decidedly ironic, especially concerning the topic at hand.

Matt, if you are being led by the Lord in a direction that makes no sense according to man's wisdom, then count yourself among good company in the faith, and step out into the sun. The tricky part will be in discerning if that's what it really is, or if it's just impatience or arrogance. Only those close to you, with whom you pray and cry, will be able to help you see the answer to that. No one here on the board will be able to contribute much in that way.

Kitty

Irony?

Psalm 20 is about calling to the Lord in the day of trouble, and looking to Him for victory in battle. No where does it imply that the soldier should go out unarmed. Rather, he knows the ultimate decision will be the Lord's, and trusts Him to remember His faithful ones.

David carried his psalms in his heart, and Goliath's sword in his hand. Both actions showed his wisdom.

[OrovilleTim]

Referring to early evangalism, I'd recommend a book named "The Jerusalem Factor - Recasting Personal Soul Winning in the 21's Century" by David A Wood.

A blurb from the back:

Within two years of the death of Christ, the first Christians won over 100,000 converts in Jerusalem by following the simple four-step plan taught by Jesus.

The book of course covers the four-step plan from scripture, but also covers personal attitudes, overcoming fear, addressing barriers, and so much more.

I got this book as part of a 13 week "Soul Winning" program that took me from feeling akward, and almost guilty, about talking to those I was most comfortable with about their eternity; to a point where I can easily converse effectively with strangers about God's plan of salvation, and not even get pulled of track.

There is some very useful information and perspectives in this book, and I highly recommend it to anyone who has an interest in winning others the Christ.

[Kitty]

Irony?

Psalm 20 is about calling to the Lord in the day of trouble, and looking to Him for victory in battle. No where does it imply that the soldier should go out unarmed. Rather, he knows the ultimate decision will be the Lord's, and trusts Him to remember His faithful ones.

David carried his psalms in his heart, and Goliath's sword in his hand. Both actions showed his wisdom.

Yep, I said it strikes me as decidedly ironic, and it still does.

From Luke 9:
"When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick. He told them: 'Take nothing for the journey—no staff, no bag, no bread, no money, no extra tunic.' "

Apparently Jesus had a different view of wisdom and preparedness, at least in this instance.

The point is NOT "do nothing to prepare," the point is "do what the Lord is telling you to do, and don't do what he's not telling you to do."

Matt, I believe your original post in this thread expressed your observations that the pastoral training we have today doesn't seem to resemble — at least to you — the mentoring/living/teaching/empowering type training portrayed in the New Testament with Jesus and the disciples. I tend to agree. And please accept my apologies for turning it into yet another advice debate over whether or not to go to seminary.

Kitty

[Ravindave_3600]

the point is "do what the Lord is telling you to do, and don't do what he's not telling you to do."


That's a conclusion I can accept.

[Crunchyriff]

That's a conclusion I can accept.

Ah YES!!!