Secular music?

[Old Believer]

I just thought I'd throw this question out and see what happens.

What's the general opinion about secular music. All types, not just Rock, Blues, and the more contemporary music.

[kewlpack]

Excellent question OB. One that I have been convicted about for many years. It's even been a topic of discussion in recent weeks/months with some of the guys I fellowship with.

I left secular music FAR behind when I became a Christian in '91. I had been the lead singer in a hair metal band and played guitar back then a lot (turned 21 in '91). Almost immediately after I was baptized into Christ, I read Scripture which told me that Jesus bled and died for most of the things that secular music proudly proclaims - particularly the rock n roll side of the tracks.

Why would I want to enjoy and even revel in the very type of content that crucified my precious Lord? Nevermind the subtle influence that the messages of music embed in our minds and hearts. I am of the mindset that if you understand the Scripture about something then you need to do it as wholeheartedly as possible.

So my wife and I took all - I MEAN ALL - of our secular music (tapes/records back then) to a used music store and sold hundreds of titles for a buck a pop. I have NO regrets. It definitely made folks freak out early on when they found out about it (non-church associations) and it took me a while to adjust. Once I did - I didn't miss it a bit. Neither did my wife. We fully believe the less worldly insurgence Satan can slide into our lives, the better - we are not perfect in this, but we do try very hard. We got rid of our television for seven years or so and only allowed it back in when there were tools to lock out the junk.

I had left guitar behind back then as well - because all I knew was Iron Maiden (etc.) types of music and it just didn't jive with the Truth. I had used my voice for Satan so long, I didn't want to even sing anymore. I also needed to focus on Bible College, etc. Music had to take a hiatus. I sold all my gear and bought a computer to learn a "tent-making" trade.

Jesus said to leave the world behind and pursue the Kingdom no holds barred. And not to ever turn back. That is always there in the back of my mind...helping me stay the course.

14 years later, I find myself attending church where they seem to have little qualm with their folks heartily enjoying secular (and in some cases blatantly anti-Christian) music.

Recently, I picked up guitar again to use it for the Lord. This has proven to be a two-edged sword. I want to share music to spread the Good News. That means I need some skill. In order to become proficient I am coaxed by my instructors (and really other musicians in general) into listening to the "guitar greats" of the past who were usually 100% worldly and had little interest in the glory of Christ. So you end up exposed to the junk again. Funny (oddly), about two weeks ago I told one of my close brothers in Christ that I was thinking of completely hanging up the music again. I said it was because I didn't feel like I was making any progress in skill - but this all had a lot to do with it too.

I believe instrumental music is probably the safest type of secular music because it is difficult to play a note in an immoral way (though some people find a way to do that even). So I would vote that there are some secular artists (albeit very very few) that a Christian could listen to without danger of worldly influences. I listen to Christian artists and then some instrumental artists 98% of the time. The remaining 2% I allow myself to listen (rarely) to what I would call "worldly artists" for the sake of learning guitar.

This same principle should apply to talk radio, television, movies, newspapers, magazines and the Web. I falter too much - I hate that. Still Jesus means what he says and I have to bring every thought captive to the obedience of Christ.

I actually managed to get in with a quartet (as a lead tenor) and we did various cover tunes of the Christian music - with and without instruments - and it was so satisfying. Singing a good word for Jesus! ;)

For what it's worth, there are plenty of wholesome Christian artists out there now who can help you guys (whoever you are) get away from the sinful side of music. The choices are broad and good.

I hope my pilgrimage in this respect helps some of you guys to draw near to God and find less of the world ringing in your ear. Don't stand by and keep letting the world sing you "to sleep". 8)

Blessings.
~A~

[Pearly Gator]

I voted OK in some cases, only for the sake of excluding RAP and SCREAMO. :P

[TheViking]

Before I start, kewlpack bro, this is not to trash your conviction at all.
I listen to any kind of music and I do mean any. However I am quite aware of that not all music is backed up with great lyrics improving my faith and insuring my spiritual growth. I do not view music as damaging for my faith or spiritual growth either. I believe in being “in this world” but not “of this world”. For the past 17 years I have been a part of the Christian and secular music scene. If there was a way to live from playing Christian music only, I would probably look into that, but with a limited market like Norway, I think pigs will fly sooner than that happening.

I think there is a huge danger in loosing touch with what is actually going on in the world. I think it is healthy to know what the enemy is brewing up. I meet kids every day and if I did not know what they read, listened to, believed in, what subcultures were moving and so on, I would just be another religious goofball to them. The fact that I do know the music they listen to, have read about or seen the movies they watch, have played some of the video games and so on, kinda gives me the right to have an opinion. Amazingly the kids actually listens to what I have to say.
I have heard about Slayer, I have listened to Marilyn Manson’s latest tracks, I do know who snoop and 50 cents are. I can talk with them about being aware of what they listen to, not taking what is sung for truths. I can challenge them and ask them why they like particular songs, make them think things through.
Besides, you will find a lot of non-Christian messages in any style of music, from classical to folk, to blues, rock, pop, rap, r&b and so on, as you will in arts, literature and even the school text books. You will find stuff not conforming with Christian standards in science and politics as well.
To me it is more about using common sense, I keep what I can (music, politics, science) and throw away the rest. That doesn’t mean that I will rule it out of my life.

[stephen]

I voted ok in some cases, but "some" for me would mean "less". I dont really keep up with the trends, and the new artists, or the new songs too much. I do hear them, try as I may, my kids do listen to some of the secular stuff: they are at an age, I have to allow them to decide for themselves, what they're going to do.

I have a "weakness" if you will, for SRV. But I limit my exposure to his music. I also am contemplating taking some lessons, and I know I will be "learning" a few secular tunes. I look at it like this: If I was young and starting in construction, I'm gonna learn from the hardened, hard-core construction crew. Now this does not mean that I adopt their lowered morals/standards, nor do I start talking like they do every time a young woman passes by :shock:! I have to remain steadfast in the faith.

Also, music was created for the Lord. I'm not saying all music, is Praising and Worshiping the Lord. Because the truth is, a lot of the secular music has been propogated by the god of this world, and it isnt giving the Glory to Jesus.

Now I do find it interesting, that an awful lot of current CCM bands/stars do site some secular influences as far as music goes. But, I also notice that these artists are strongly ground in the Word of God, and shout His name from the mountain tops!

And I am noticing at the same time, a lot of record companies are befuddled, because they didnt see the rise in CCM that has taken place over the past few years!

I think we need good foundational approaches like kewls. We need to know where we have our treasure stored, though we do walk through this world.

[kewlpack]

Before I start, kewlpack bro, this is not to trash your conviction at all.
No worries man. I agree with some of your insights as well.

Keep the faith! ;)
~A~

[Old Believer]

I'm going to chime in since I, basically, started this.

When I became a Christian I struggled less with music than I do now. Back then it was easy -- get rid of all the secular stuff, and just listen to Christian artists. There are a lot of great Christian musicians out there. Dennis Agajanian is one of the best acoustic country and bluegrass players there is. Doyle Dykes is a great acoustic player. Phil Keaggy is phenomenal. Third Day is one of my favorites. Also Mercy Me. The list goes on.

Over the years I have come back to listen to some of my old favorites, such as the Allman Brothers Band, ZZ Top, early Lynyrd Skynyrd, Thin Lizzy, and even some Rolling Stones. I even went out and purchased the new U2 (BTW it's quite good).

I have a friend who is adament about not listening to anything secular. I posed the question to him about classical music, and jazz. That one left him scratching his head. There are those who would go so far as to say anything non Christian is off limits. If someone goes that far, then they should not look at great art, watch TV (the vapid pool of filth), watch movies, and on and on. We are in the world we, we are not of the world.

I take my lead from the Apostle Paul in 1st Corinthians 8:8-13 (mind you, Paul is not merely talking of food).

"But food does not commend us to God; for neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse. But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours becomes a stumbling block to those who are weak. For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will not the consience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those thngs offered to idols? And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother persish, for whom Christ died? But when you this sin against the bretheren, and wond their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble."

I don't want to "stumble" my brother, so I am very, very careful what music I listen to, and play. I would never play a Rolling Stones tune in time of worship and praise, though I might throw in a Duane Allman lick. But I may break into a bit of "Simple Man" while I'm playing at home.

I've got to let the historian side of me loose for one more paragraph.

I think many of the concerns about music came about in the late 1940s, and early 1950s with the advent of R and B, and Rock & Roll. I think a lot of the problems were initially rooted in racism against African influenced music in the United States. The rebellion of Rock & Roll and the social changes that were coming scared a lot of people. And now it's deeply rooted in our minds.

I am just thankful that in the late Sixties, Christian artists and the Jesus Movement were able to bring popular music to the alter.

[kewlpack]

Excellent point in mentioning the stumbling block principle. I'm amazed at how many people blow that off for the sake of doing what they want because they just want to.

Jesus said "Woe to the one through whom the stumbling block comes."

We just have to be vigilant and ever-considerate of how our choices actually affect everyone else. :?

Good good point OB.
~A~

[Wally]

My vote was ok in some cases. I listen to secular music a lot right now. I'm pretty selective about what I listen to, however. I also have a pretty large collection of Christian music. I go through periods where all I listen to is one or the other. I think you have to follow the Spirit's lead in this area. Some CCM is less Christian than some of the secular music I listen to - discernment is the key.

I'm not too keen on the Christian bands that sound just like some well known secular act with different lyrics. I'm also not too keen on the idea that secular music needs to be incorporated into a worship service to help attract youth, etc. We have done a couple of "secular" tunes on a rare occasion - People Get Ready and 40, but in general I think there is an abundance of great hymns and praise and worship tunes so we don't need to "push the envelope" and incorporate classic rock, etc into our worship.

I agree that concern for not causing a fellow believer to stumble is paramount.

[stephen]

This topic reminded me of another topic, over at the tdpri. I think our old friend Rev. Spanky really nailed it:

well--this old timers opinion
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2003 2:46 pm

I've been an officer (minister) in the Salvation Army for 20 years come June this year.
In the Salvation Army we've been borrowing different "genres" and styles of music for a long time !
Over a hundred years now since our founding in 1865 we've taken a LOT of drinking songs and put lyrics to them that glorified God---hey sometimes ya gotta get the sinners attention first ! Many of the alcoholics dealt with in the early Army sang "Champagne Charlie" in the taverns and pubs of the East End of London night after night---so why not put words to the tunes they were familiar with and let em THINK about that singing as kind of introductory praise---hey call it cheesy or whatever you want man, if it brings somebody to think even a little about their spiritual life---I just came back from doing a men's retreat with a christian praise band from the Salvation Army (Oscar and Linda Roan) were our guests--what a wonderful weekend---over a hundred guys came forward --some tough "street" guys from NYC, recovering alcoholics and drug pushers who were in rehab==we did songs like:
Open the Eyes of My Heart Lord
Ancient of Days
Lord I Give you my Heart
Knowing You Jesus
Sing Out(Ron Kenoly)
Anointing ,Fall on me
I Want to see Jesus lifted Higher
My Redeemer Lives !
Nothing but the Blood
Blessed Assurance
etc etc
Know alot of these songs have arrangements that are more "modern" sounding or else modified to swing a little more----I find there is no such thing as "appropriating" ! We USE anything we can to save souls for Jesus which is the bottom line---hey if its a cool arrangement---go with it---man the days are short and the time to wax "esoteric" about whether to "use" something or not is DONE ! We have a song in the Salvation Army that says........"the time for enlisting is passing away" ! and so it is brothers ! if someone can be caused to think about his spiritual life by listening to a chord riff from LOUIE LOUIE with Christian lyrics---I'll do it---we don't have time to be discussing what's valid to use as ministry and what isn't ---look at the headlines brothers ! It'd tooooo late for debaaaaate ! Harvest Harvest Harvest ! NO paralysis by analysis------------Spanky with a head of Holy Ghost steam from a great weekend with the Lord and seeing what His power can do in men's lives !
_________________
Rev. Spanky****************************
God plays a 52ri--He's really GOOD TOO !
***************************************

I still miss the Rev. But, I'm gonna see him again soon one day!

Oh, and if you want to see the whole thread:
http://www.tdpri.com/viewtopic.php?t=2491

[Teleguy]

I'm ok with all kinds of music: sparrows; whales; crickets (with or without Buddy Holly), as far as protecting my spirituality.

I haven't yet developed the taste for opera, but I imagine some of those people will probably be redeemed too, despite my objections.

I have played many kinds of music professionally, and have occasionally passed on studio work or other gigs that I felt competed with the Gospel message (music dedicated to Gurumaraji, for instance, remember him?).

But in general I follow the example of Dr. C. Everett Koop, the surgeon General under Reagan and Bush.
He was a believer, but felt that as surgeon General he should not confuse his faith and politics.

Affairs of State are separate from an administer's personal Faith, he felt, as long as he is not required to go against his conscience in any matter or outright deny Christ or His precepts.

He was pushed hard by the Administration he served under to state that his position was that -as Surgeon General- abstinance was the only way to prevent the spread of the Aids virus.
His declaration, true to his profession as the Cheif Health Administrator over a nation that is not entirely Christian in its values was, if I remember correctly,
"...Barring abstinance, the use of a condom is the most effective way to avoid contracting Aids.
I think he was done as Surgeon General after George H. W. Bush's failure to be re-elected, but he may have been invited to vacate the post before that.

[kewlpack]

I'm also not too keen on the idea that secular music needs to be incorporated into a worship service to help attract youth, etc. We have done a couple of "secular" tunes on a rare occasion - People Get Ready and 40, but in general I think there is an abundance of great hymns and praise and worship tunes so we don't need to "push the envelope" and incorporate classic rock, etc into our worship.

I agree that concern for not causing a fellow believer to stumble is paramount.
Good words Wally.

Amen and amen.
~A~

[MrMike]

If you guys want to have some fun, check out www.apologetix.com

Some of their stuff seems a bit cheesy, but it's all very tongue-in-cheek. I've gotten to know them personally over the years, and their passion is teaching. Their lyrics are incredibly sound and occasionally pretty deep from a biblical perspective.

I'm sure there are lots of guys who are outwardly saying, "That's so lame" but inside are thinking, "I wish I'd thought of that!".

[Old Believer]

Excellent point in mentioning the stumbling block principle. I'm amazed at how many people blow that off for the sake of doing what they want because they just want to.

Jesus said "Woe to the one through whom the stumbling block comes."

We just have to be vigilant and ever-considerate of how our choices actually affect everyone else. :?

Good good point OB.
~A~

Thanks. Being a stumbling block for other believers has been a major concern for me for years. I would not want to lead another brother or sister into sin by my actions.

[ptrallan01]

we only listened to Christian music we would still be singing gregorian chants in Latin! We would never have developed the rich variety of music that reaches different people. Do I listen to George Clinton, Parliment Funkadelic, The Last Poets and such regularly? No but I do listen. For Christmas I got my wife the time life series of 70's & 80's R&B love songs.

Yes, I listen to secular music! I play secular music at home but only play music for God outside of my home. There is a rich and vibrant world outside of the church, one that both Jesus and Paul stepped into on a regular basis. The Apostle Jude actually quotes from it in his epistle, Paul often alludes to secular things in his letters. They are useful for reaching the "unconverted". They are not useful for growing the converted in most cases.

When I came to Christ I had to give up Masonry. The Holy Spirit was adamant that I not return to the Lodge or the trappings of the Order. After 14 years and an excellent "Masonic Career and Pedigree", I walked away without a second thought. But He has never led me to conviction about secular music the same way although there are some songs I won't touch at all.

The point of being a stumbling block is very important. What my wife and I listen to at home doesn't lead us to sin but we don't want to lead anyone where they might not have the strength to go. Several years ago we drove to NY from Chicagoland. The Choir director of our church was with us. We grooved on old gospel, Al Green, Van Morrison, and other music. Our choir director knew all the words sang all the songs, enjoyed it immensely but chastised me saying I couldn't listen to this kind of music because I am the pastor. Strange logic but unfortunately not uncommon.

If you can listen to secular music without a problem ok. If you can't be like Joseph and RUN from Potipha's wife!

YIC

Peter

[Old Believer]

we only listened to Christian music we would still be singing gregorian chants in Latin! We would never have developed the rich variety of music that reaches different people. Do I listen to George Clinton, Parliment Funkadelic, The Last Poets and such regularly? No but I do listen. For Christmas I got my wife the time life series of 70's & 80's R&B love songs.

Yes, I listen to secular music! I play secular music at home but only play music for God outside of my home. There is a rich and vibrant world outside of the church, one that both Jesus and Paul stepped into on a regular basis. The Apostle Jude actually quotes from it in his epistle, Paul often alludes to secular things in his letters. They are useful for reaching the "unconverted". They are not useful for growing the converted in most cases.

When I came to Christ I had to give up Masonry. The Holy Spirit was adamant that I not return to the Lodge or the trappings of the Order. After 14 years and an excellent "Masonic Career and Pedigree", I walked away without a second thought. But He has never led me to conviction about secular music the same way although there are some songs I won't touch at all.

The point of being a stumbling block is very important. What my wife and I listen to at home doesn't lead us to sin but we don't want to lead anyone where they might not have the strength to go. Several years ago we drove to NY from Chicagoland. The Choir director of our church was with us. We grooved on old gospel, Al Green, Van Morrison, and other music. Our choir director knew all the words sang all the songs, enjoyed it immensely but chastised me saying I couldn't listen to this kind of music because I am the pastor. Strange logic but unfortunately not uncommon.

If you can listen to secular music without a problem ok. If you can't be like Joseph and RUN from Potipha's wife!

YIC

Peter

Great stuff. Wouldn't it be sad if we were still doing Gregorian chants.

Your commentary on Masonry was really good. It's great how God can do that, and for some things it's real easy. For some things it's more difficult.

[kewlpack]

Great stuff. Wouldn't it be sad if we were still doing Gregorian chants.

Your commentary on Masonry was really good. It's great how God can do that, and for some things it's real easy. For some things it's more difficult.
Hey now - Thomas Tallis "Spem In Alium" is amazing... :shock: I believe it was done with 2 40-person choirs. Talk about tone! Some of my favorite stuff is that slow dreamy, almost droning kinda music. Granted - I don't listen to it as much as contemporary styles... but there are days when it helps me chill out. But I know what you guys are saying. ;)

Oh ya - classical composers... some of those dudes were as bad as Paul Stanley or Mick Jagger as far as morality or ethics go. Each era has their moral and amoral artists I suppose.

Lucky for us - we fall in with the moral (and eternal) artists grouping! :mrgreen:

One of my mentors when I began preaching had come out of Masonry. I believe he was 32nd degree back in the 50s (?). He had all kinds of material that exposed them. He gave me some before he passed away. It was so inspiring being around a guy who was a fireball for Jesus for 55+ years. I miss him.

Blessings.
~A~

[Old Believer]

Great stuff. Wouldn't it be sad if we were still doing Gregorian chants.

Your commentary on Masonry was really good. It's great how God can do that, and for some things it's real easy. For some things it's more difficult.
Hey now - Thomas Tallis "Spem In Alium" is amazing... :shock: I believe it was done with 2 40-person choirs. Talk about tone! Some of my favorite stuff is that slow dreamy, almost droning kinda music. Granted - I don't listen to it as much as contemporary styles... but there are days when it helps me chill out. But I know what you guys are saying. ;)

Oh ya - classical composers... some of those dudes were as bad as Paul Stanley or Mick Jagger as far as morality or ethics go. Each era has their moral and amoral artists I suppose.

Lucky for us - we fall in with the moral (and eternal) artists grouping! :mrgreen:

One of my mentors when I began preaching had come out of Masonry. I believe he was 32nd degree back in the 50s (?). He had all kinds of material that exposed them. He gave me some before he passed away. It was so inspiring being around a guy who was a fireball for Jesus for 55+ years. I miss him.

Blessings.
~A~

Didn't mean to offend. I had a music teacher who tought us about Gregorian chants, it was actually pretty cool stuff.

Masonry is actually a pretty powerful force in history. Most of the founders of this country had some connections to Masonry. It's a bit scary. My father in law was a Mason, and I have a great uncle who is way up in Masonry.

Now back to music. A lot of Jazz guys weren't very savory either.

[kewlpack]

No offense at all bro - it's all good. ;)
~A~