Pups

[stephen]

OK, I'm gonna go for a meatier, more aggressive tone, ala something SRVish. So I've heard a couple of pups mentioned in different circles:

1) Texas Specials Tele
2) Rio Grande, Muy Grande

Does anyone here have any feedback about these pups? Are one of these the ones I'm lookin for, or should I look at another pup?

Thanks guys!

[TheViking]

...I am a sucker for Rio Grande. They are extreemly good for the buckaroonies. I also have some Levinson pups that rocks big time. On the bit cheaper side, the Kent Armstrongs never stops to amaze me when it comes to being hard drivining and a bit on the "let me loose so i can pound some sound" kinda thing.

[Teleguy]

I think either are meant to be meatier, but still have some twang.
They're both taller with more windings.

I like Rio Grande generally, but also had a Jimmy Vaughan Strat with Texas Specials.
They both have that sound.

[kewlpack]

Oh hey - you can get MAD CRAZY twang from DiMarzio Super Distortion pickups! They have the creamy vintage punch you need for the old Nirvana/Metallica tone. :shock:

Just kidding... :roll:

Look up Van Zandt pickups - VERY VERY nice vintage tone. I had a guitar with three single coils Vintage Plus (I think they were called) and it screamed "I'm old! Love me!" Nice stuff.

Okay - sorry for the whacko post - I'm sick this week and the DayQuil is making me loopy.
~A~

[reverbbb]

I have recently developed the opinion that hotter does not mean meatier. I found that "tone" is where the meat is. Tone can be shaped and enhanced with the amplifier EQ. Where hotter is a gainier sound that begins to thin out. Therefore, a middle of the road pup has been working well for me (MIA on my Telecaster Deluxe and 50's).

However, I have heard the same good things about the Rio, and Van Zandts. The Texas Specials will definately and a little more grind and gain, but not more tone.

[kewlpack]

Therefore, a middle of the road pup has been working well for me (MIA on my Telecaster Deluxe and 50's).That same thing held true for the pickups we replaced on my Ibanez S470 series. The stock pickups were quite hot (13.5k) and in-your-face. I replaced them with 8k DiMarzios (PAF Pro/NECK, FRED/Bridge)- the results are much much better.

Not specifically telecaster - but agreeing with Rev's post.
~A~

[Surfcaster]

I would agree, I just put replaced a JB with a DiMarzio Virtual PAF in one of my guitars, the JB is a hotter humbucker (though not real hot) and the Virtual PAF is a lower output humbucker...I actually prefer the lower output...and it has significantly more bass and low mids than the JB. Check tone charts for the various pickups your considering because as people have mentioned here, it's probably more tone that you're looking for than output. Though I do think the Fender Texas Specials are more meatier tonewise, in addition to being somewhat higher in output. Don't know much about the other p/ups mentioned.

[Old Believer]

Check out Kinman pups. He has a lot of info.

www.kinman.com

[randy_mc]

I'd check out

Seymour Duncan JD
Seymour Duncan Antiquity

I love the sound of both. The JD is a bit more "meatier," but the Antiquity has great tone, and is very warm and breathy.

I'm really interested in the SK T-90. Supposed to be a Tele with P90 leanings (ie. upper midrange snarl).

[Nickcha]

If you're looking for a higher output/gain pup then the Rios, SD's etc might be just the thing; maybe even the C/S Texas Sp'ls.

My personal preference leans towards a a lower output, very soulful pup (in a nice resonant "woody" guitar, through a great vintage amp).

It *seems* that you often end up choosing between wonderfully toneful pups or hot aggressive pups. It leads me to believe that in the science of winding pups and magnet selection, acheiving a higher gain pup is usually at the expense of sweetness. Therefore I think (IMO) that you have to decide where you want to add your gain: at the pups, pedals or amp. I personally go for getting the sonically sweetest sounding guitar I can, even if it's a humbucker. Warm, sweet natural sounding guitars/pups break up wonderfully w/ good pedals and amps, without loosing their nice tone. Fire-breathing pups don't seem to have tone to begin with, and that's where tone begins. So you can't add it in if the guitar doesn't have it, but you can sure enhance it if you start with it.

The pups I have wired into pickguards and like are Rolphs, Cryo-treated Callahams, VanZandt Vintage Plus, and some of the Fender C/S pups. I have an early set of C/S Texas Sp'ls. They're OK but they don't seem to have the sonic quality of the others I mentioned. The Rolphs are wonderful. The cryo Callahams are a big suprise to me because they are essentially custom wound (underwound) by Lindy Fralin for Bill Callaham, and then he does his mojo freezer treatment. I've never heard Fralins that I liked - too spikey and strident - but these are just the opposite: warm and articulate. If you don't want to spend a lot the VanZandt Vintage Plus is a remerkable nice vintage-style pup with just a tad more attitude - very, very nice.

Of course, you can't stick these in a dense, dead-sounding guitar and get great results, so start with a nice resonant woody sounding guitar, and these pups with bring out the best.

[Crunchyriff]

VanZandt's are wonderful pickups, imho. I miss the ones I had (and the guitar they were in..) They are often overlooked for other brands...

Welcome Back, Nick!

[Brad]

I have recently developed the opinion that hotter does not mean meatier. I found that "tone" is where the meat is. Tone can be shaped and enhanced with the amplifier EQ. Where hotter is a gainier sound that begins to thin out. Therefore, a middle of the road pup has been working well for me (MIA on my Telecaster Deluxe and 50's).

However, I have heard the same good things about the Rio, and Van Zandts. The Texas Specials will definately and a little more grind and gain, but not more tone.

I have to agree with Reverbbb on this one. I'll admit to beign somewhat of a pickup junkie. Over the last 35 years, I' ve tried and used quite a variety of varoius pickup makers wares. For tele pups, I've used Van Zandt true vintage, Dimarzio Twang Kings, Virtual Vintage, SK's, Duncan Antiquities, Broadcaster, 1/4lb'rs, Elektrokraft, Fender, Lawrence. Same on my strat. For my Humbucking needs, I find the lower output, vintage style PAF's give me the best tone.

My current #1 chambered mahogany tele sports an SK Dualtone ll humbucker in the neck and an SK T-90 in the bridge. With this combo, I can get everything from traditional tele twang to great blues/ rock tones. The Dualtone ll is one fine pickup. The ability to get PAF, P-90 and strat neck tones out of one pickup is wonderful. The various tones in the middle position is very inspiring. The T-90 i nthe bridge lets me go from Don Rich to Leslie West. Very versitile.

Getting back to the question at hand, overwound pups usually don't do it for me. The T-90 is a rare exception. Some excellent suggetions in this thread. IMO, you can never go wrong with Van Zandts, Lollars or SK's. Twang Kings are a very good set for not a lot of money and the virtual vintage have really surprised me.

[kewlpack]

Anyone ever hear of "Razor" brand pickups?? You can get them from All Parts I believe...

I can't find anything on them online though. I am curious for a reason (I don't need them or want them though).

Input is appreciated.
~A~

[stephen]

Lots of good info from you all! I do agree that pups dont add a lot in the tone department: there tonal characteristics are subtle, and it does lean more towards hi or low output. But that said I have come across some dark sounding pups, and some bright sounding pups. So its in the mix, just not as much as your knobs on your amp, and guitar, or as intrinsical as your fingertips on your strings.

What I was hoping to find out is, if those Texas Special pups had that "gainey" quality to em (in my mind, I do equate gain as a tone, when in the mix), and does it produce a meaty gain, or a thin gain sound.

Maybe I should have thought out the original question a little better.

[Brad]

Don't get me wrong!! I think your question was fine. I do believe pickups have much to do with the tone. Witness the various ones I ( and others ) have gone through to find what work best. It's all subjective and what works for one may not for another. The combo of guitar type, wood, amp, effects, playing style, what your ear likes to hear, etc all play into the equation. I had a Seth Lover in the neck of this tele for quite a while and was certain it was THE pickup for this guitar. The Dualtone sounds so different. The added benefit of beign able to get P-90 and strat tones is gravy, but I wanted a great PAF tone also. The Dualtone is much more open and articulate in PAF mode than the Seth. Not to say the Seth was muddy, cause it's not in this guitar...it's just different. I really like both, but the dualtone hooked me from the first note. I had to adjust my amps a bit, but it's worth it. As far as Texas Specials, same thing. Many love them and get great tones with them. They don't work for me very well. But others sound great with them. Again, it's just finding what works for you. That's half the battle and ( for me at least ) a lot of fun!

[Nickcha]

I'd highly recommend you check out Jim Rolph's (http://www.cinternet.net/%7Erewinder/) handwound pups. He loves to talk and if you call him he'll want to know all about the guitar you're putting the pups in and what kind of sound you're looking for. I've never heard any of his SC or HB pups that weren't superior sounding.

[Teleguy]

...if those Texas Special pups had that "gainey" quality to em (in my mind, I do equate gain as a tone, when in the mix), and does it produce a meaty gain, or a thin gain sound.

Maybe I should have thought out the original question a little better.

The original question seemed to say that to me.

Yes, in my experience "Texas Special" type pickups are a genre that features slightly hotter output, but not a lot hotter.
They DO have that more "in your face" type of gainy sound, while preserving some twang and crispyness, just not that airey high end sound you get from vintage type pickups.

They do not sound dry or lifeless, just less "hollow."

I have Fender CS Texas Specials in one parts-o-tele of mine, and am still playing with the bridge pu adjustments. The neck I'm very happy with.

I had the Rio Grande version in a parts-o-strat (Muy Grande set), and was very satisfied with the tone and that more "fundamental" tone. The harmonics are there still, but they don't dominate the sound so much. It's a more "direct" this-is-the-fundamental-note note. Lots of snap. Less harmonic aireyness to most notes, but will still chirp and go harmonic in freeback when provoked by technique.

[stephen]

Thanks guys! So from what I can deduce from this thread and others else where, that the Texas Specials are a higher output (gain) than a stock, but not out of the bnounds of reason higher output/gain. And that is what I think I am looking for.

I've heard I can get some used for about $50.00, and brand new are about $90.00. Those are the kinda prices I can squeze into my tight budget. So if I can find a decent used set for 50, cool! If not, I'll have to save a litttle more, and pop the 90.

Thanks for all your comments! I appreacite it greatly!

[stephen]

Well, it looks like I'm gonna be in the market for thise Teaxas Specials alittle sooner than I thought: I just put my new (to me) 3 way switch in, and the bridge pup is dead. Broke out the meter, and the hot lead is gone, even at the point of where the wire comes out of then pup itself. I know some one will say "Re-wire that pup", but if I'm gonna invest that kinda money, I'm just gonna get me some new pups.

Now I might get a bridge pup by itself (I have heard you can get the Texas Special Tele pups seperate), and just stay with my neck pup for now, that way I can save a little cash.

So if any one wants to unload a Texas Special Tele bridge pup for cheap, send me a pm or email!

[Wally]

The set of Texas Specials is $90 at Musicians Friend, which seems to be about as cheap as you can find online....

I don't have any experience with the Texas Specials, but I have a Nashville Tele w/ the (stock) "Tex-Mex" pickups in it. I like the 'Tex-Mex" pickups. I think they are supposed to be in the same vein as the Texas Specials, but most comparisons I have read described the Texas Specials as hotter.

[refin]

My personal preference leans towards a a lower output, very soulful pup (in a nice resonant "woody" guitar, through a great vintage amp).

It *seems* that you often end up choosing between wonderfully toneful pups or hot aggressive pups. It leads me to believe that in the science of winding pups and magnet selection, acheiving a higher gain pup is usually at the expense of sweetness.




I couldn't agree more.........a common adjective in describing pickups is "complexity",and I feel that the lower to average power pups have tons of sweetness and character.I've had original pafs,and my overall favs are stock Gibson pups from the early '60s,like stickered T-Tops.
Another great HB pup is the original DiMarzio PAF ('70s)---lots of tone and fun.
You can "decorate" stock power pups with pedals,as Nickcha said....everyone has a different sound and goal in mind,but most of the tones that we drool over were played on stock power pups.
I've mentioned this before,but the live Roy Buchanan album "Livestock" was played with a stock vintage tele from about '54,and the tone is stupid good.

[Crunchyriff]

What I learned many years ago from one of my tone-bros, is that the hotter the output, the more narrow the frequency response of the pickup.

I have found that, for me anyway, 95% of the time no matter what style of music, a vintage-type pup will do me right everytime. They are more musical, more dynamic, and are fatter sounding that their "hot" counterparts.

Like you guys said, you can do all sortsa post-pup tweaking like pedals, etc; but if you start out with too narrow a frequency response pup- you are immediately limited with WHAT you can do with it.

DITTO the 70's DiMarzio PAF. This is one of the finest aftermarket pups ever made, IMHO. You are talking my language, REFIN! They aren't too compressed, or mushy and dark like the Duncan 59's, nor are they shrill.
To me they captured the essential vibe of a vintage p'up, especially through a Marshall. Larry did a nice job with those, and if ANYBODY ever comes across those old DiMarzio PAF's let me know.

[Teleguy]

...if ANYBODY ever comes across those old DiMarzio PAF's let me know.

They no longer make those?
One of my faves too.

[Crunchyriff]

Yes they still make em, but the early ones were fantastic. I want some of the early ones.

Things change- Duncans, for instance, have changed dramatically over the years IMHO (apples to apples comp here)- models like the 59, Custom Custom, APII, etc. I used to use Seymour's stuff exclusively.

These new Duncan versions sound quite different than the early 80's versions of these. I even confirmed this with a Duncan tech that little changes in wind, etc, over the years that they implement can certainly change the way they sound.

[kewlpack]

I have a DiMarzio PAF Pro (neck) and DiMarzio Fred (bridge) in my solidbody... and I "think" the tones are pretty good. A lot better than the stock Ibanez Powersound pickups that were in it (way way too hot).

Still, I am not getting the "tasty tone" out of that guitar that I really want. It is a HSH config with 5way switch. The guitar itself (S470DX series) is a thin, all mahogany body with mahogany/maple/rosewood neck.

I talked to a DiMarzio support tech and he suggested a (pardon the naming here) "Humbucker From H**l" in the neck and an "Air Norton" in the bridge. According to the Dimarzio site these pickups are quite different than what I have now.

What would you guys do? This isn't a Les Paul or a Strat. It's probably somewhere in the middle tonally. I don't know what to do. :banghead

I LOVE the stock pickups on my Ibanez Artcore AS83 though. They sound great. I don't know what I'd put in there that would sound better (?). Perhaps I shouldn't worry about it! ;)

On the solid body guitar - your thoughts please.

[Brad]

As far as Dimarzio's go, ( I like their pickups by the way ) the H from H is a great neck pickup. It's voiced more on the strat single coil side, but in humbucking form. So, if you like strat neck pups, it may be a good way to go. The Bluesbucker is another good one. P-90 flavor in humbucker size and operation. I have not heard the Air Zones, Fred, Steve's Special, Norton, etc, but the people who have them, seem to like them.

[tom grossheider]

fwiw I tried Texas Specials and couldn't stand them. Too much mids for me, Van Zandts were good. Haven't tried Jim Rolph's guitar pickups, but he rewound a '68 Tele bass pickup and did a fabulous job, cool guy too. I suppose I'd opt for a tube screamer or clean boost and push the middle a bit for what you are looking for. I don't especially like spending a lot of time in the pickup search department, I'd prefer to work with what I've got and tweak the amps/effects to get what I need. But that's just me, so take it with a grain of salt. I'd love to own a tweed Bassman, early AC30, and a stable of Fenders but it is not practical for me. The Matchless Lightning is very toneful and tweakable, add a some good effects and I can cover just about everything. Add a Marshall 2x12 and tone city! Sorry for the drift......

[stephen]

I'm checkin into a 1/4 pounder bridge pup. Guy says never used (we'll see), and the meter says it reads 16.8kohms.

Any info you all could share with me on the 1/4 pounder?

[Crunchyriff]

Supposedly, the "H from H" pickup (hey Hell is a place, right?) is one of the variants of the MusicMan/EVH pickup. Some say it's THE pickup from the EVH MusicMan guitar.

I'm not sure of that, but I DO know the Ed's pursuit at the time was copying an old humbucker he had that he really liked the sound of, that had a dead coil. Thus, the single-coil vibe to it.

[prscustom24]

Check out Kinman pups. He has a lot of info.

www.kinman.com

I'm another Kinman convert. AVn-60's in the Tele, AVn-Traditional MK-II's in the Strat. The air these things get is amazing.

If Chris ever gets around to making humbuckers, the ceramic HFS bridge pup in my Custom 24 is outta there.