kewlpack
01-18-2005, 03:33 PM
I posted this on the VOX site - thought I'd drop it in here as well...
======================
The following report is issued for your perusal by one who proved to be slightly idiotic. :?
For the historical data to prove my lunacy - see the posts I've made in the last 3 or 4 weeks... (cough). It so happens that being flaky can have an upside.
Ergh... :shock:
Remember how I wasn't "completely satisfied" with the (VOX) AD50VT. I didn't like the fact that I felt the need to tweak this and that and make mods to the amp just to get a really good, really flexible tone. Yadda yadda. Then last week I went and decided to try out a Crate GLX212. It sounded pretty good (with an EQ in the effects loop! Otherwise - no dice). But it was to big to be as portable as I wanted - and it started falling apart. Screw holes were stripped out; the cabinet buzzed; and the handle was cheap plastic and broke; etc. Back to the farm with this bad egg. :shock: :shock: :shock:
Okay, I admit that it was foolish to expect too much from that level of amp. :oops:
I did some more research and had to sit back to think about what I actually was looking for once again. So allow me to blabber (maybe it will help others who have the same tone-quest disease?!)...
I need (erhm, want [cough]) a rig that is (you will no doubt think I'm dreaming):
1) Versatile and high quality - great range of clean, light crunch, heavy crunch, full on mayhem crunch - whether at bedroom or gig levels. Oh ya, I do want a real tube feel sometimes (well... all the time!).
2) Effects - good and plenty - I don't like messing with tons of expensive boutique pedals and the consequent loss of tone that can happen. Still, I know that dedicated pedals usually do a superior job overall (in most cases). Just the same, I don't want to carry a huge custom, daisychained pedalboard.
3) Extremely portable - 50lbs or less and something that isn't massively bulky or a pain to set up. Bing bang boom and we're ready to go.
4) Extensible - can grow BIGGER - pretty self-explanatory. I don't really want to replicate or have overlap for a variety of reasons. I doubt that's always feasible though.
5) Reasonable cost - Items 1 through 4 don't come cheap...
Sigh... what could meet this list of criteria, and do it well?! :roll:
After digging around on the web a lot, I decided to try something a little unconventional, I thought (uh oh). Note: Reverbbb, ML, and my wife all think I've lost my marbles by now because of this tone hunt.
After playing through it for an hour or so in a sound room, I decided to go with the VOX ToneLab SE through a Alesis Sumo 100 (150w full range) Keyboard/PA amp! Say what?!?
Yes, a "flat response" clean power amplifier. I noticed a lot of folks in just about every large thread where they talk about using either the TLSE, PODxt Live, or GNX4 - tons of people were saying they are having great success with these tools through keyboard amps or clean power amps (atom, power engine, roland, etc.). I had my doubts, but it really does sound good.
Cost: Let's just say I was able to make a small sacrifice :| and got the setup for $25 cash out of pocket.
Up until now, I've always used modelers in front of guitar amps... and never liked it as much as I wanted to. I mean, I have tried to EQ them like crazy, but it never really "got there". Now I understand why. The guitar amp can introduce a lot of coloration - especially if you put the pedalboard in front of the amp (versus the effect loop return).
I usually loved the way the pedalboards sounded through headphones - but not through an amp... now I know why. The headphones weren't tainted. Maybe other folks who dis these tools are having this same trouble.
To test my theory, I plugged in my pretty good headphones and played the TLSE awhile - then while playing, A/B'd it with the SUMO amp. There it was - the tone was fuller through the amp (obviously), but the basic tone did not change. It was crisp, fat, warm, saggy, etc. etc. just like in the headphones. Go figure, they were right. 8)
FWIW: The ToneLab SE and clean amp combo are honestly light years away from everything else I've played, owned or tried thus far (I realize I probably say things like that too often - sorry... GAS does that). The tube valve reactor is MUCH more evident than in the AD15/30/50VTs. You have to hear it to really understand the difference in tonal quality. I can finally hear real pick attack.
Enough babbling for now... I hereby repent of wandering from the VOX camp!
TLSE: http://www.voxamps.co.uk/products/tonelab/tonelab_se.htm
SUMO: http://www.alesis.com/products/sumo/index.html
Now I gotta get busy and practice more! Submitted for your benefit (I hope).
~A~
======================
The following report is issued for your perusal by one who proved to be slightly idiotic. :?
For the historical data to prove my lunacy - see the posts I've made in the last 3 or 4 weeks... (cough). It so happens that being flaky can have an upside.
Ergh... :shock:
Remember how I wasn't "completely satisfied" with the (VOX) AD50VT. I didn't like the fact that I felt the need to tweak this and that and make mods to the amp just to get a really good, really flexible tone. Yadda yadda. Then last week I went and decided to try out a Crate GLX212. It sounded pretty good (with an EQ in the effects loop! Otherwise - no dice). But it was to big to be as portable as I wanted - and it started falling apart. Screw holes were stripped out; the cabinet buzzed; and the handle was cheap plastic and broke; etc. Back to the farm with this bad egg. :shock: :shock: :shock:
Okay, I admit that it was foolish to expect too much from that level of amp. :oops:
I did some more research and had to sit back to think about what I actually was looking for once again. So allow me to blabber (maybe it will help others who have the same tone-quest disease?!)...
I need (erhm, want [cough]) a rig that is (you will no doubt think I'm dreaming):
1) Versatile and high quality - great range of clean, light crunch, heavy crunch, full on mayhem crunch - whether at bedroom or gig levels. Oh ya, I do want a real tube feel sometimes (well... all the time!).
2) Effects - good and plenty - I don't like messing with tons of expensive boutique pedals and the consequent loss of tone that can happen. Still, I know that dedicated pedals usually do a superior job overall (in most cases). Just the same, I don't want to carry a huge custom, daisychained pedalboard.
3) Extremely portable - 50lbs or less and something that isn't massively bulky or a pain to set up. Bing bang boom and we're ready to go.
4) Extensible - can grow BIGGER - pretty self-explanatory. I don't really want to replicate or have overlap for a variety of reasons. I doubt that's always feasible though.
5) Reasonable cost - Items 1 through 4 don't come cheap...
Sigh... what could meet this list of criteria, and do it well?! :roll:
After digging around on the web a lot, I decided to try something a little unconventional, I thought (uh oh). Note: Reverbbb, ML, and my wife all think I've lost my marbles by now because of this tone hunt.
After playing through it for an hour or so in a sound room, I decided to go with the VOX ToneLab SE through a Alesis Sumo 100 (150w full range) Keyboard/PA amp! Say what?!?
Yes, a "flat response" clean power amplifier. I noticed a lot of folks in just about every large thread where they talk about using either the TLSE, PODxt Live, or GNX4 - tons of people were saying they are having great success with these tools through keyboard amps or clean power amps (atom, power engine, roland, etc.). I had my doubts, but it really does sound good.
Cost: Let's just say I was able to make a small sacrifice :| and got the setup for $25 cash out of pocket.
Up until now, I've always used modelers in front of guitar amps... and never liked it as much as I wanted to. I mean, I have tried to EQ them like crazy, but it never really "got there". Now I understand why. The guitar amp can introduce a lot of coloration - especially if you put the pedalboard in front of the amp (versus the effect loop return).
I usually loved the way the pedalboards sounded through headphones - but not through an amp... now I know why. The headphones weren't tainted. Maybe other folks who dis these tools are having this same trouble.
To test my theory, I plugged in my pretty good headphones and played the TLSE awhile - then while playing, A/B'd it with the SUMO amp. There it was - the tone was fuller through the amp (obviously), but the basic tone did not change. It was crisp, fat, warm, saggy, etc. etc. just like in the headphones. Go figure, they were right. 8)
FWIW: The ToneLab SE and clean amp combo are honestly light years away from everything else I've played, owned or tried thus far (I realize I probably say things like that too often - sorry... GAS does that). The tube valve reactor is MUCH more evident than in the AD15/30/50VTs. You have to hear it to really understand the difference in tonal quality. I can finally hear real pick attack.
Enough babbling for now... I hereby repent of wandering from the VOX camp!
TLSE: http://www.voxamps.co.uk/products/tonelab/tonelab_se.htm
SUMO: http://www.alesis.com/products/sumo/index.html
Now I gotta get busy and practice more! Submitted for your benefit (I hope).
~A~