I think the song is aweful.. What would you do?

[PatrickH]

So, in preparing for easter our praise team has been planning to put together a choir and work up a "big" song with them. Our worship leader graciously offered to handle the choir, and find an appropriate song.

So things are going well, and choir practices have even started when I recieve an e-mail with the song/music for the band. I listen over it and the first thing that strikes me is "this is aweful!" After repeated listens, playing the song myself (thinking - maybe the recording is just really bad), spending hours in prayer and meditation over this song and asking god to allow me to submit myself to His service, I still the song really seems to bother me. We've had songs that I've not been in love with before, but this one actually seems to elicit some deep anger and anxiety in me. Rather than focusing me on God, I feel myself becoming selfish and unsettled when I try to sing along with it. I can't really explain why, but something it it really bothers me.

I have talked to some other people on the worship team, and while a few were quick to admitted to not really liking the song, none of them are affected by it like me. Meanwhile, others find the song inredibly moving, and it reportedly brought them and the choir to tears in a choir rehearsal this past sunday.

Yet for myself, I feel this song causes me to stumble greatly in worship, in where it leads my heart as I sing it, and is obviously becoming a stumbling block for me in my ministry on the worship team. I've been told it is "too late" to change the song because rehearsals have started, but I don't know if I can comfortably play the song on Easter. It actually has me doubting my calling to serve God in this ministry because I can't seem to submit myself to the situation and let things go...

What would you do in this situation?

Patrick

[Pearly Gator]

It's not uncommon. Sometimes we have a real difficult time supporting worship and BOOM - the congregation is really blessed by it. Sometimes everything goes perfect and there is no response whatsoever from the congregation.

A couple of things come to mind. First, the worship leader is responsible for the songs and Holy Spirit may have something planned that nobody knows about. Another thing may be that God is watching you. (I'm speaking from personal experience. ;) ) There are some songs that are so bad they make me want to sit down, unplug my guitar, and wait for them to end without me. As musicians, we are sensitive and sometimes it feels like a curse. Through the winds and the waves, stay the course and keep your eyes fixed on Jesus.

Maybe you could come up with a cool original riff or descant to put life into the song.

What is the song?

Pearly Gator

[stephen]

Yep, what PG said!

I'm curious too, whats the song?

[wishus]

A lot of P&W songs bother me and distract me from worship. Most of the time, it is just bad songwriting. There was one song, however, that I felt was worship of the Bible, rather than worship of God. I know that sounds weird, since the Bible is the word of God, but neither I nor my wife was comfortable singing it, so we would just stand there while the rest of the congregation did.

Had I been in the worship team, I would have raised my concerns about it. After that, I would have probably deferred to the judgement of my leaders, and done my best to praise God through my playing.

[Jaybo]

Maybe the choir was reduced to tears because they dislike the song so much as well? :love:

Okay - just trying to lighten it up a bit.

To me, in one sense - it's just a song. But, there seems to be something powerful in it that is affecting you - so maybe the reason behind the song being chosen is YOU.

That is AWESOME! Let it remind you that God is thinking about you, looking at you, caring about you, and guiding you.

Do you dislike it, because of a performance issue?

Do you dislike it, because of a theological issue?

Do you dislike it, because it's just not that good of a song?

For me, it's been really hard to be a part of anything, because I don't choose the songs - and I will inevitabley have a theological issue with a song.

Peace, and strength in this journey!

[Mr. 336]

There have been times when I've had to play a song that I don't like because God has called me to serve. The Sunday morning worship leader at our church is an easy guy to talk to so I never had any qualms about telling him if I thought a song was bad, & he frequently asks the teams feelings about new material anyhow, so that's a good thing.
If the lyrics really bugged me I'd have to share it, though. If I really thought the song was misrepresenting the heart of God or grieving Him in some way or affecting other people negatively I'd be amiss NOT to.
Now that I lead a team on Saturday nights it's not an issue, LOL. If I don't think it glorifies God or underscores His perfect moral character, we don't sing it!

[Kitty]

There are some songs I just don't like because of personal tastes. If the other worship leader chooses to put one of those in the set, I just say "well Lord, I'm sure this song blesses someone, so let's do it."

But there are some songs which I cannot sing as is because of what I believe is inaccurate theology. If the other worship leader picks one of those, I just change the words to something I believe and sing to myself.

Later, I can bring it up and we can all talk about it and see what we think together. But I don't feel a Sunday morning is the right time for this. (We are small and frequently don't even find out what the song list is until Sunday morning. We just leased a building though, so now we'll actually have rehearsal space.)

Kitty

[Pearly Gator]

Okay, Patrick, what's the song??

[PatrickH]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the replies. If nothing else, it's good to know that other people have similar struggles...

I think, for me, its not a purely lyrical issue - it's sort of how the music & words fit together. The words on their own are fine (if not a little weakly written), but the music puts the emphasis in all of the wrong places and actually serves to change the meaning of what I think the song originally intended... my honest thought, having spent a great deal of time with it, is that the song is unfinished and could I approach the songwriter (who I'll likely never meet), I'd suggest re-working some key parts of the song. The song goes from being about Christ (which is what you get if you simply read the lyrics with no music) to being something that diminishes Jesus and praises ourselves above him.

And for the record, I've decided not to name the song, as I don't want to ruin something for people if there is the chance of people on the board may become familiar/moved by it or already are.

[Pearly Gator]

And for the record, I've decided not to name the song, as I don't want to ruin something for people if there is the chance of people on the board may become familiar/moved by it or already are.

You will not ruin the song for us. We're mature enough to let Holy Spirit be our guide on the issue. It could be benificial for everyone who writes to study the song together.

If you won't name the song then maybe we should close and lock the topic.

PG

[stephen]

Hey Patrick, no need to worry that someone might be upset that you listed a song as one that bothers you. Hey, there are one or two here that dont like the song "Blessed be Your name!" (Chris Tomlin, I think?), but I like the song. Eventually i'll un-ban those guys to show em I have no hard feelings.........


I'M JOKING! :rofl: (so far, I have not banned anybody yet, for any reason)

We all love to ener into the debate, and like PG said, were pretty well rounded and fairly mature around here, so feel at ease.

Now, time to go ride my skateboard and play with my HotWheels!

[Mr. 336]

Hey, there are one or two here that dont like the song "Blessed be Your name!"
make that three :innocent

[Jaybo]

Oh come on, the songs good up until the "you give and take away" part. :angel

[Pearly Gator]

Job 1:21b, "the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD."

It's theologically sound.

[popthree]

deleted

[Mr. 336]

Job 1:21b, "the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD."

It's theologically sound.
That is definitely a scripture found in the bible, but theologically sound? I guess that would depend on your theology;)

[Pearly Gator]

Job 1:21b, "the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD."

It's theologically sound.
That is definitely a scripture found in the bible, but theologically sound? I guess that would depend on your theology;)

What's wrong with Job's theology?

[Mr. 336]

Who said Job's theology was wrong? I'm just not willing to lay the responsibility for everything that happens at God's feet. I don't think that is an accurate view of Who God is.

[Pearly Gator]

Now that the weekend services are over, I can come clean.

Guess what song we played this week... (http://s54.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1XTQB24V42XCH1ZARPBCVK0EV7)

(Les Paul > Bad Monkey > Fender Pro Reverb)

PG

[Kitty]

Who said Job's theology was wrong? I'm just not willing to lay the responsibility for everything that happens at God's feet. I don't think that is an accurate view of Who God is.

Just a quick comment from me on this side topic: I can understand not wanting to lay the responsibility for everything that happens at God's feet. But I don't see why acknowledging to God that He gives and He takes away has to be the same thing as that.

Kitty

[PatrickH]

Okay... well, you guys have talked me into it.

The song, in particular is "Hope of the Nations" by Brian Doerksen. I'm sure there are people who don't have issues with the song, but as I said, something bothers me in it...

Most of the song is lyrically pretty sound (I feel most could go through several revisions still... but I can't really say that to Brian Deorksen), but I feel like musically it falls apart in how the lyrics are served by the melody and music. A song, which is otherwise meant to celebrate Christs sacrifce takes a turn at the end to being about us (atleast that's where is leads me - hence my spiritual turmoil). You repeat "we believe" over and over as the tag for the end of the song, which bothers me strangely. It, to me, moves the song from praising God for what he has done, to rejoicing in our own works and how we have obtained salvation by what we've done... To me, the focus should remain on God, and I don't feel that it does. Musically, that statement is what everything in the song builds towards and you can't help but see "us" as the focus.

I've tried to rationalize it from a number of angles - like perhaps the song is meant to be a creed of our faith - and that line a response - but again it fails musically to me. The song builds to that line, but that line, itself, doesn't seem musically or melodically strong, in the way a joyous proclamtion of saying "we believe" should.

Lyically, I don't feel that statement quite links up with the rest of the chorus quite well either, and there are a lot of "whys?" and "whats?" that a revisions in the lyrics could easily clarify. Yet the song ends up building towards focussing on us, reminds us of that by singing about "we" more than anything else, and then it doesn't even feel like a well connected response. Yes, it seems connected a bit, but somewhat vaguely.

Finally, the biggest thing that bothers me is I hear the song and I feel like it's unfinished. I feel like this is the source of all of my issues, really. When I sing it, there are moments where I cringe because I feel it's got rough spots to be worked out - in the same way I cringe in parts of my own songs when I play through them and am aware of it's faults. I feel like the things that are decieving COULD be fixed and it bothers me that we would "settle" for what, in an other musical forum, would seem like poor songwriting. It is a song that feels like it has potential to be good, but was just given up on as the songwriter figured that that was "good enough". I have no desire to sing weakly written songs as the words to express a faith that is so powerful and strong. Doing otherwise, to me, feels like we aren't giving God our all - instead we're saving the best stuff for the world. It needs to be the otherway around.

Ideally, I'd love to change elements of the song, but the choir directory is being very strict that we play the song "just like it is on the recording". And as a big choir has been rehearsing from before I had ever heard the song, it's not really a feasible request anyway.

Again, people will likely disagree, but this is how I felt about the song, and there more people I talk to about it, the more people I seem to find that are bothered (generally to a lesser degree) by the same things in the song.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. Hopefully this proves to be productive.
----------------------

Oh - and about Blessed by Your Name. That's a song that at our church our pastor made us change the lyrics to in the bridge. While it isn't bad theology, it isn't well connected to anything in the song and he felt that for many christians early in their faith, that those lines out of the context of Job can seem quite decieving. Many people have used those lines in history, to say that if bad things are happenning to you, then it's obviously God punishing you (hence - the lord taketh away) for some terrible sin - which isn't the intent of those lines, nor is that supported by the book of Job at all.

So we have always sung the song as "Through the Joy and through the Pain My heart will chose to say..." instead of "You Give and Take Away". It fits quite well thematically without the semi-questionable lyrics. I've become so used to it at this point that I find it really strange to hear "You Give and Take Away" ever be sung.

Patrick

[Kitty]

Meanings have to travel across the bridge of words. And often the trip gets sidetracked.
(That's a Kittyism, loosely based on something I saw in an old episode of Kung Fu.) :-)

About "you give and take away," I have a similar observation as before. Yes, many people have erroneously used that phrase from the book of Job to teach that God causes bad things to happen to us in order to punish us.

But that doesn't mean that's what Job was trying to say, and that's certainly not what this song is trying to say. I see this phrase as eloquently connected to the rest of the song in the context of - no matter what, I will bless the name of the Lord.

Other people's mistaken theology does not rob me of the joy of saying that.

But that's just me. If a worship song offends you, change it! It's about worship, not whether or not a song is correct.

Kitty

[Jaybo]

Meanings have to travel across the bridge of words. And often the trip gets sidetracked.
(That's a Kittyism, loosely based on something I saw in an old episode of Kung Fu.) Smile

LOL

What can't we learn from old Kung Fu movies.

If it works for you - go for it. When I sing it, I try to sing it from the you GIVE blessing, and TAKE AWAY my sin, hurt etc.

I do worry that people take it from a "you sent me cancer to teach me a lesson" viewpoint - or trying to filter God, and the finished work of Jesus through some old testament, old covenant standards.

Of course then there's the song "Famous one"!!!! :soapbox

Maybe it's no wonder that my all time favorite church song is STILL Father Abraham! :crazy


Patrick - interesting thoughts on that song. I don't know that one - but understand what you're saying.


I remember a few years back, I just had this "sense" that we should sing Humble King on Sunday. The song isn't overly super - and I can't play slide to save my life :mrgreen: But we did it anyways.

There is a line that says something like: "You are the God of the broken, Friend of the weak".

On this Sunday - there was a guy there, who's father had just passed away. It didn't matter what the rest of the song said - THAT was the line he heard. And that was the line God wanted to give to him that week.

It still blows me away to think about that.

You never know. You just have to listen to God, and go along for the ride.

[Ravindave_3600]

and also usually end up choosing the tunes. And I make sure they're singable, lyrical, and straight theologically... or they don't go into the service.

There aren't many songs I've banned. There are outlawed verses, and sometimes words get changed. In my previous church the worship leader had a favorite song with a beautiful bridge. Too bad the bridge took a verse out of context, and forced it into a non-Biblical meaning.
Me: That bridge has to go
Him: But that's the best part! Everybody loves it!
Me: Then I guess we skip the song entirely. If anyone asks, I'll explain why.
Him: ........

"Give and take away" works for me, although it might require some explanation. In James we're told Every good and perfect gift comes down from above, from the Father of the heavenly lights. Jesus also told us that when we pursue His Kingdom and righteousness we'll receive everything else we need, as well. Take away? He chose to allow Job and Paul to lose their health, Jesus to go without a home, Habakkuk to lose his crops of figs, grapes, olives, wheat. He took her son from Mary. He took the kingdom from Manasseh. But in every situation - abundance or loss - His name is blessed.

[Strat-tastic]

There is a missionary family that our church helps support. One sad, sad day, the wife and young son (don't know, guess 4 years) were crossing the road. Car hits son, killing him on the spot. His mother said, heard by many, 'The LORD gives, and the LORD takes away. Blessed be the name of the LORD'.

Now that's what I call witness.

[Pearly Gator]

There is a missionary family that our church helps support. One sad, sad day, the wife and young son (don't know, guess 4 years) were crossing the road. Car hits son, killing him on the spot. His mother said, heard by many, 'The LORD gives, and the LORD takes away. Blessed be the name of the LORD'.

Now that's what I call witness.

That brought me to tears.

The proper response to God is always worship. It is rumored that as the Titanic sank, the band played "Nearer My Go To Thee".

Gator

[Strat-tastic]

It was before my salvation that it happened, but the family have visited our church since, and the good news is that God has blessed them with another son, (another little brother for their young daughter). Of course they miss him, but they're at peace with God and don't mind talking about it. I just find it incredible that someone could witness the death of a little child and then immediately find it in their heart to praise God.

[Jaybo]

I'm glad she could still respond to God - but He didn't kill, or take away the child.

It's amazing to read stories like these about people - how they DO get through.

I think in the same situation, I would just be done!

Despite the disagreements on theology - it's been very encouraging for me to see that there are other people who actually hear, and think about the lyrics of songs.

Lyrics, more than musical style have been a major issue to me becoming involved - and it's honestly really great to hear that there are others.

Not that we need to cause problems, or have OUR views always heard, or win out - but at least I'm not the Lone Ranger. :cool:

[stephen]

Now, just food for thought:

I dont believe in a mean God setting there thinking, "What can I take away from Stephen today?" God doesnt operate like the old greek gods of mythology.

I also dont think God intentionally goes, "Who wont I allow to accept me?"

But, the bible tells us that "God hardened Pharows heart". Huh?

If you look at the language, you will see that this is a correct translation, but, the meaning is a bit lost. The meaning implied is, God being unchangeably Yahweh, was in such contrast to what pharow had been raised to believe that he himself is a god, that pharrows heart hardened. Yes, the root cause was God hardened his heart, but it is only because God is who He is, not because he wanted to be mean. Remember, the Bible says that he would that all accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour, but we know that is not going to happen. Why? Free will. God is Soveriegn, and will not override our free will.

Same goes with "he gives and takes as way." God permitted it to happen in Job's life (losing family and things). God allowed it, it couldnt happen unles he allowed it, so God is the root cause again.

Just food for thought..................

[Jaybo]

Yeah - it's a pretty deep subject.

Like the thought that - if God created everything, and there's evil, then God created evil.

Or, if God didn't stop it, then He's responsible for it.

I think if you go too far either way (as with anything) then you move away from what God really is.

You can't say He created the Earth, and now is just sitting back watching what happens, and you can't lay the blame and responsibility for everything at His feet either.

[Mr. 336]

Since we're so far off topic anyway... ;)
I believe for God to have the universe He wanted, certain things had to be possible; two objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time, for instance. When you add free-moral agents to the equation, that makes for a lot of car crashes.
Now, God could override all the decisions of all the people that would result in harm, but then that wouldn't be a universe that God wanted. It seems like His whole point was to create beings that were like Himself in that respect so they could perceive & appreciate Him. In order to have that, choices made w/limited understanding & choices contrary to His will had to be possible.
So it seems that God causes some things (giving & taking away) & some things also happen that are contrary to His will but He still allows them because that is the way He designed the universe to function & He cannot wisely prevent them from happening.
A number of years ago we lost a baby. He was born & only lived a few minutes. We had no shortage of well meaning folks offering spiritual explanations to us, & I'm not knocking them- many were trying to comfort us the only way they knew how. My wife put it better than I ever could have. She said, "For a second I was tempted to ask God, 'Why us?' But then I thought of all the suffering in the world & answered myself, "Why not us?' "
We tend to attach the purposes of God to suffering & calamity in life in order to comfort ourselves; as if to understand things would make them easier to bear. But the reality is that it is much better to just have the comfort & presence of God in those times than an answer as to why. He promised us we would have tribulation, but He didn't offer any remedy except that He would be with us.
*edited for content*

[MDK2323]

I've said things during practice about songs that we have done that I didn't feel were worship songs. I usually get nowhere with that. Sometimes I think it would be better to not be in the worship band at all.

Drives me nuts! We have even done a rendition of a DC Talk song that isn't a worship song at all. It was called "In The Light", not sure if you guys are familiar with that one, but it doesn't seem to be a worship song in any way, shape, or form. It really makes me wonder what the heck we are doing sometimes, or what we are trying to get across to the congregation.

:crazy

I just love the Lord and feel like His house should be filled with his praises, not just music.

[popthree]

saying God created evil is like saying Winchester created murderers.

i think of some lyrics to a song....the writer's name escapes me at this time.... "sometimes He calms the storm, sometimes He calms the child"

i don't see God as the source of the bad stuff in this life, but He is a great source of healing and recovery when we go through trials.

[Kitty]

It really makes me wonder what the heck we are doing sometimes, or what we are trying to get across to the congregation.

MDK, I'm not there so obviously I know nothing about your church's motives and goals. But it seems to me that many churches aren't trying to get anything across to the congregation any longer. Rather, we're trying to market to a specific target demographic.

Er... excuse me. I meant "reach out to the community."

Kitty

[Ravindave_3600]

Jaybo, while God created all, evil isn't a created thing. As darkness is the absence of light, and cold is the absence of heat, evil is the absence of God's character.


A number of years ago we lost a baby. He was born & only lived a few minutes. We had no shortage of well meaning folks offering spiritual explanations to us, & I'm not knocking them- many were trying to comfort us the only way they knew how. My wife put it better than I ever could have. She said, "For a second I was tempted to ask God, 'Why us?' But then I thought of all the suffering in the world & answered myself, "Why not us?' "
We tend to attach the purposes of God to suffering & calamity in life in order to comfort ourselves; as if to understand things would make them easier to bear. But the reality is that it is much better to just have the comfort & presence of God in those times than an answer as to why. He promised us we would have tribulation, but He didn't offer any remedy except that He would be with us.
*edited for content*

336, thanks for sharing that. Tough time, great testimony.